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Date:         Sun, 23 Feb 1997 10:36:48 -0800
Reply-To: Craig Bond <craig00@INU.NET>
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From: Craig Bond <craig00@INU.NET>
Organization: East Texas Area Council, BSA
Subject:      New troops; new leaders
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Blaine Jackson raised two points:
   1.  He says he's a leader and "puts up with" 35+ kids because, among
other things, he's having fun and getting something out of it all for
himself.  Right on, Blaine!  My observation is that, generally, people
get into Scouting for their own sons, and stay in for themselves *and*
for their sons.  After their sons have moved on, they stay in for all the
selfish/altruistic reasons that have been cited in recent posts.
(Altruism is selfishness that benefits others).  That's why we've seen
that wonderful pearl of wisdom stated here a year or so ago:  How long do
I have to stay in Scouting?  Until it stops being fun!  [Unless you get
into it for the money, of course.  ;^(]

His second point, I want to quote:
>2.  My biggest objection to leader selection is allowing someone with
>no boy scout experience or training (I am sorry, but cub scouting
>leadership is not the same thing) to "start their own troop".  In
>my experience, these leaders are usually dissatisfied with the local
>troop leaders for some reason, and/or have their own agenda to promote.

Blaine, that comment reminds me of the wonderful saying that a
conservative is someone who believes that nothing should ever be done for
the first time.  (Don't shoot me, conservatives: I'm just quoting a cute
turn of phrase; I'm a DE and was not issued a personal political
viewpoint -- not on the Charm School TOE).

The only leeway I'll give you is that a leader *should* have training
before starting a new troop.  That's the responsibility of the District
Training Committee, Unit Service, Membership Committee, and the DE -- in
that order, BTW.

Otherwise, puhleeeaze!  There are many valid reasons for starting your
"own" troop:
 -- you're dissatisfied with the local troop leaders for some reason
(they should leave Scouting?  they should suppress their desire to spread
their wings, to do things a little differently?  to have a smaller troop?
 a larger troop?)
 -- you have your own agenda to promote (Like, I want a troop that camps
every month? that uses the patrol method?)
 -- there is no local troop
 -- there is no troop serving the youth in your church?
 -- there is no troop serving your ethnic group?
 -- the local troop says its too big and is not accepting new members?

If we take Blaine's objection to its logical conclusion, there would be
no new troops unless we robbed existing troops of one or more of their
leaders.  Not practical, my friends.

Like some 2,000+ other professionals in this country, I start new troops
for a living.  I work with their leaders throuogh fast start and when
necessary one-on-one (or three or four) Scoutmastership Fundamentals I &
II, and we sign kids up and get them started in the program.  I recruit
unit commissioners to help them, pair them up with existing troops for
their initial camping experiences, encourage the leaders to come to
Roundtables....and Scoutmastership Fundamentals III the next time it's
held.

And the only question I ask about their motives is that they want their
sons to learn that they put God and their country first, others second,
and not forget themselves.  It's an extremely rare day when I'm
disappointed in the actual results.

BTW: I do check references, teach my leaders to check references, and
although I only have authority to approve, not to disapprove, have
recommended that a leader be disapproved.  She was, by the Scout
Executive, a decision upheld on appeal by the regional office.

--
Craig Bond, SrDE
Lufkin, TX

"The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing?"
  -- Steven Covey

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From: Vince Arca <VINCE_ARCA@HP-USA-OM14.OM.HP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Troop help needed -long
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Item Subject: Troop help needed
Subject: Troop help needed
Author:  ao234 (ao234@DAYTON.wright.edu) at HP-USA/o2=shargw2
Date:    2/27/97 10:30 AM

I know nothing of the Boy Scout program but am willing to learn. I would
like to stay with the Cubs for a few more years but I need to help get
this Troop going. Please share your knowledge with me. Give me some ideas
of what to do here.
Thanks
Col. Ron Goble
CubMaster Pack 65
Xenia, Ohio
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________

Your request has set me to thinking and I feel to solve my problems I need to
retrace our troop beginnings.

>From Scoutmaster's Junior Leader Training Kit #3422

"The Scoutmaster's job is to train and guide junior leaders to run their troop.
The patrol method is the very foundation of Scouting, and working with and
through junior (youth) leaders is the heart of the patrol method."

        Two years ago,(summer 95) we had six Webelos II cubs ready to cross to
Boy Scouts. We visited another troop and 1/2 wanted to join and 1/2 wanted to
give a try to recharter a closed up troop program at the same church that
charters the Cub Scouts. WE held a meeting with all the parents and invited the
Webelos I leaders also. The decision was to try and form a troop and if it
didn't work we would go our separate ways. My gut feeling was to leave the group
but my loyalty and teamwork side stayed with the task of starting a troop. There
was quite a difference of opinion of HOW MUCH WORK IS INVOLVED and only two of
us (myself included) who were in Scouts as a boy.

        The first year I was not Scoutmaster and the meetings were run like Cub
Scout Den meetings with a "puppet" for a Senior Patrol Leader. We planned for a
year of activities and 4/10 made it the rest fell through. There was little
meeting planning going on but by January we learned of the Woods Wisdom book and
were forcing the patrol leaders to build meeting plans.  We had no OLDER YOUTH
to show the patrol leaders how to do their jobs;repeated efforts to recruit
failed as we had nothing to offer older youth. There was no Junior Leader
Training or even a simple job orientation for the BOY RUN PROGRAM that Scouting
is all about. We had a committee chair who did nothing. Funds were essentially
nonexistent we had got a $1000  grant from the Cub Treasury and still had very
little equipment.

Year 2:

        We changed the committee chair and I moved up to Scoutmaster. We planned
a 3 month program and achieved all of our outings. I held Junior leader training
and worked with new leaders to plan a program month-by-month. Boys are great at
planning but not at executing their plans leaning way too heavily on making the
Inter-Patrol Activity (game) the longest part of the meeting. They also would
plan skills and bring no materials to teach with and expected the adults to
step-in. I would say 40% were boy-driven and the rest were adult driven.

        We had an off year for Webelos. Of eight that received
their Arrow of Light only three are still active. I would recommend you check
the statistics. Many Webelos are not able to make the transition and drop out.
I suspect this is what killed our troop the first time.

        Now we are in 1997 and have a full year program of activities until
1998. What I am noticing is that there is no follow through from the committee
to actually support the program.

YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE A STRONG COMMITTEE AND A SELF-SUSTAINING GROUP OF
ADULTS TO HANDLE THE MEETINGS AND OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES.

I am currently planning and running meetings ( Pseudo Boy Scout Style)for the
past two months mainly because my SPL was on a basketball team. I issued a
challenge/ultimatum to all the Troop youth at the last campout where I required
the whole group to attend  a "short" version of Junior Leader Training. Either
provide me with a plan you will execute or I will come up with a plan and you
will have to follow it. I explained it was their troop but my job was to ensure
a well planned program for all the Scouts. I received lots of enthusiasm and
"buy-in" but time will tell on their commitment and dedication. (Remember, they
are  only boys)

I am also doing the treasurers job ,the advancement chairs job,publishing
monthly newsletters,and coordinating drivers/adults/tents/equipment/permission
slips for all our campouts. We have a new volunteer for treasurer (the old one
had his boy drop out). I am training our new advancement person as fast as
possible(the old one was me). I am searching out a Camping Chairperson. I must
also point out that the "committee" should be doing this function as pointed out
in the "Troop Committee Guide Book"

        I know I am doing too much. I asked at the committee meeting in January
for a Patrol dad or assistant scoutmaster to work with each patrol. I asked
in February at the parents meeting for more adults to assist with just one
weekend campout. I am still getting only the bare minimum.

        I have been tempted to quit and understand why many scoutmasters do. I
also know that help is coming next year as my other son is in Webelos II and I
know that three of the adults are committed to providing a program for their
sons. I am still working hard to provide a QUALITY program for my troop.

******************************************************************************

        On your side, if you decide to start a troop make sure you have the
Adults to sustain a program. Don't let the Cub Scouts suffer if you move on to
Boy Scouts. Ensure they have a trained leader to take your place. Also , don't
try and do both or both programs will suffer quality.

        I would recommend you visit several troops and determine if they already
have what you seek. I should have trusted my instincts and joined another troop.
Of the original  8/9 adults we started with in the fall of 1995: four are left,
two are active.
        I also would recommend Scoutmaster Fundamentals Training and Fast Start
for every adult on your committee if you still want to build a troop.

Yours in Scouting,

Vince Arca  Scoutmaster Troop 8  Augusta, Georgia

            I don't know when to quit!