Author: Michael F. Bowman
Company: Attorney at Law

SCOUTS-L
----------
UNIT PROBLEMS

Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 02:13:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Hi, I'm new!

Tammy,

Mike is absolutely right - use your parent resources!  And while you are
not strictly speaking recruiting them as leaders you are getting them
involved and used to the idea of helping out, which will become all the
more important as your Scouts move from Bears to Webelos.  Next year, when
they start working on activity badges, whoever is Webelos Den Leader will
quickly find that they are not an expert in all of the areas.  Most dens
solve the problem by asking parents to take a month to teach the skills
needed or help with tools, etc.  If you start now, it will be easier next
year too.  Another benefit of getting parents involved is that the
enthusiasm of the boys tends to be catching.  And when the Pack needs a
volunteer for an activity, they are more likely to help there as well.

I can't vouch for your District, but most Districts have a monthly Cub
Scout Leaders' Roundtable that tries to show Cub Leaders how to conduct
activities related to next month's theme including songs, crafts,
projects, ceremonies, skits, etc.  You may want to give roundtable a try
and if they're not doing this, ask if they can.  

Your Council also probably has an annual Cub Scout Leader's Pow Wow or
specialized courses for Cub Leaders at the University of Scouting.  In
either case it is worth attending.  Many course offerings feature how-to
information and demonstrate techniques.  

I too was once a Bear Den Leader and found these resources very helpful.

Sounds like you're doing the right things and that your den will do well! 
Sometimes the best thing is to ask questions as you have.  Keep up the
good work.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 19:33:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Webeloes Summer Camp

When I was a Bear Den Leader we had a natural leader in one very onery
Scout, whose conduct was terrible - no discipline at home, never told
"no".  We developed a den totem that had each boy's name on it and under
each name was a hook with a leather thong on it.  At each meeting we
awarded different colored beads for attending, good conduct, advancement,
Pack and Den Activities, and special accomplishments.  When a Cub got 25,
50, 75, and 100 beads he was presented with a Cub Coin, Cub Pen, etc.
(inexpensive items from the Scout Shop purchased with den dues).  By about
the third meeting each of the Cubs began to count their beads and the
beads of the other boys.  After a couple of months the target Scout began
to fall behind and got the message.  To catch up he came up with all sorts
of good turns he could do to get a special accomplishment bead.  It worked
for the rest of the year.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date:         Thu, 28 Jul 1994 08:38:23 CDT
From: James A Lindberg <jal@TED.CRAY.COM>
Subject:      Webelos summer camp

Our Webelos attend Webelos Resident Camp at the Phillips Scout Reservation in
Haugen, Wisconsin (northwest part of the state) from July 5-8.  This is the
first year they had a specific Webelos Camp, it was a day and a half longer
than normal Cub Resident Camp, cost $75 for boys and $35 for adults.
We left around 11am on Tuesday.  Saw where they are starting the new Cub Theme
Camp, which should open next summer and will be seperate from the
Boy Scout Camp.  There will be four themes, a ship (on the water), an indian
villiage, a fur trading post, and a frontier fort.  Boys will sleep in whatever
is appropriate to the theme, like on the ship, in teepees, etc.  Councilers
will be dressed in period costumes.  Should be pretty cool.

We had good weather for camp, rains held off til Thursday night, when they were
having camp wide games, so we moved to the dining hall for Pack skits.  The
storm passed and we went back to our camps.

We got up and at 7am every morning for the polar bear swim, actually the water
was warm and on Thursday, the lifeguards brought down a cooler of ice cubes and
put them in the water!  We would then dress, go to flag raising ceremony,
breakfast, and then the boys had 2 class times to work on activity pins.  We
then had lunch, some free time, another program time (they could earn 3 badges
while they were there), then open time when they could go swimming, boating,
do archery or rifle range (bb-guns).  With the hot weather, the boys usually
went swimming.  We then had flag lowering, and supper, then free time.

On Thursday, my Pack Committee Chair and I attended Webelos Outdoor Training,
specifically designed to help with the geologist, naturalist, outdoorsman.
Had Jim Pearson form the DNR come down, I'd worked with him when I worked for
Washburn County Forestry.  We also cooked our lunch, had stir fry over the camp
fire.  (The camp dining hall had sandwhiches).  Our training lasted all day
and ended with a flag retiring ceremony, where we cut and retired a big old
"Perkins" flag.  They had racoons there, every morning when we'd get up we'd set up the
garbage cans that the racoons had knocked over at night,  We we're lucky, two
camps across the lake from us had a black bear come thru.  Talk about some tired
leaders the next day.  They stayed up to make sure a Scout didn't encounter the
bear the rest of the night.  At the second camp, I knew two of the leaders,
they're from Eau Claire.  Chris and Tom, Chris woke up Tom and said "Tom, there
is a bear in the camp."  Tom asked, "What's it doing?"  Chris answered "Look
like it's eating our watermellon."  Tom then asked, "How big is it."  Chris
replied, "Big enough that I'm staying in here!"  The bear later got in a fight
with a coon over a garbage can they both wanted.  The bear won.  Made a noise
the woke up a couple people in our camp.

Friday was misty, the kids finished up their badges.  Bill, when are you coming
up, maybe I'll enlist you to take some of our kids on a rock hunt, they enjoyed
that alot for their geologist badge.  And you clould answer there questions
alot better than the staff did.  Some of our people left after the last
program time, we had another parent come up and we (with 3 scouts) then went to
the archery and rifle range before going home.

The other thing we did at camp was to retire an old Pack flag that'd been in
storage for many years.  Our Pack is 43 years old, by the way.  Anyway using an
idea from the net, while the boys were tossing a football around, I built a
campfire, in the bottom I placed an empty tuna can with about 1/4 inch of brake
fluid, building the tinder around this so it couldn't be seen but I'd have
access to it.  Once it was prepared, I called the boys together and carefully
had them sit upwind from the fire.  I then gave them a great talk on scout
spirit and how they can do alot with it.  I then took "ashes" from the four
winds and the great spirit.  The "ashes" were in fact "pool shocker chlorine"
(use caution if you're ever going to use this!  I tried it at home alone first
so I'd know what would happen).  I then told the boys to concentrate and use
their scout spirit to start the fire while I went and washed my hands, I told
them not to start the fire though till I got back 8^).  Well they were doing
all sorts of "concentrating" and while I was drying my hands this big cloud
of white smoke appeared.  I "yelled" at them to wait for me!  They were all
very excited now and asked me how I did it, I told them it was their scout
spirit that did it, I was over at the clothes line.  As I approached the fire
area, I noticed a candy wrapper on the ground.  Now one of the first things
they were told at camp, is that Webelos love garbage, and they were to pick up
any they saw.  I looked down and said, what do Webleos love?  They answered
garbage, looked at it and they all sat there!  All of a sudden, the smoke
died away, I said, it looks like you guys killed the scout spirit!  They all
jumped to be the first one to get the garbage and through it away.
They then asked me to add somemore of that "great spirit stuff", I told them
that the great spirit will only help you so much, and that you have to help
yourself and then put alittle more shocker on, and in a couple of seconds it
burst into flame.  Lots of oooohs and ahhhhs. We then burned the old Pack flag,
and kept ashes to start the campfire ash tradition.  Later, at Webelos Leader
Outdoor Training we did an American flag retirement, which was on a fire
that had ashes from "that big list".  So we'll incorporate those with ours.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  /`-_      Jim Lindberg                     |  Cubmaster Pack 116
 { .   }/   Cray Research Inc.               |  Trailblazer Central District
  \    /    Chippewa Falls, WI  54729  USA   |  Chippewa Valley Council
   |___|    jal@cray.com                     |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 22:29:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Backwards advancement

Rex,

Somehwere along the line I think we all run into a Scout that is slow to
advance.  Sometimes he just isn't ready.  We can try to create an environ-
ment that encourages and motivates, but until the fire catches, he's just
going to lag it seems.  However, once he does get excited I think we need
to recognize that positive accomplishment for what it is and without any
confusing gestures like backdating which would suggest that we are
disappointed in his slow progress.  I think an unambiguous rewarding
message is much better for the Scout and will let him continue to progress
without being bogged down with guilt or anxiety.

If a Scouter (with all the good intentions in the world) tries to help by
changing the date, the Scout who at this age is just beginning to learn
that adults are not the ideal creatures he once thought them to be will
add this to his inventory of reasons to selectively ignore direction he
doesn't like or to become rebelious.  The favor really isn't a favor.

Then consider the fact that in real life altering public records is a
felony crime.  In corporate life, altering records may violate SEC and
other regulations or amount to fraud.  While we are in the business of
teaching citizenship and how to live a TRUSTWORTHY life, it is
inconsistent to alter a record.  What would that teach.  If that lesson is
learned, how well served is that Scout latter in life, when he begins to
cheat on records he is responsible for; e.g. taxes, company accounts, etc.?

This also is important to this Scout in light of the situation with his
Environmental Sciences merit badge.  I agree that we must presume the
Scout to be Trustworthy and that we can in such situations work with a
merit badge counselor to explain the circumstances an vouche for the work
that was completed.  What happens though when on one hand his Scoutmaster
falsifies a record and then negotiates a deal with the merit badge
counselor?  Does the Scout get the feeling that both are wrong?  What
happens to his self-concept and self-esteem then?

I think that the backdating is never appropriate.  When the Scout sees
that you are playing by the rules and that you are also supporting him as
a matter of fairness in vouching for the work he did, it sends a much
better message.  He will understand that Scouting is not penalizing
him for a sequence of events that were not his fault or
responsibility. Then, if it is necessary for him to do an oral report or
make additional observations to satisfy the Counselor, it can be seen as a
much fairer process.

BTW, if you don't have an Environmental Sciences merit badge counselor in
your troop, you probably will find that a nearby troop does or that your
district or council has one available.  A good place to find out is at
your monthly Scout Leader Roundtable meeting.

This sort of situation is always tough.  We sometimes want very badly to
see the best thing happen for the Scout.  What we need to do though is
step back and see it in the broader perspective sometimes.  Maybe that
will help your Scoutmaster.  Best of luck in resolving both matters.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

From mfbowman Tue Aug  2 00:11:02 1994
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 23:51:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: NEW SUBSCRIBER

Frank,

Increasing parent involvement is always a challenge, you're not alone. 
One successful strategy is to make a gigantic poster listing all of the
Pack positions, activity chairs, and other jobs that will need to be
filled throughout the year with a blank next to each.  Fill in the ones
where you have a volunteer ahead of time.  Take the poster to your Join
Scouting Night meeting and tell the new parents that each is expected to
take on at least one of these jobs, explaining that Cub Scouting is a
family organization and must have family; e.g., parent participation. 
Similarly put the poster in the front of the room for your Pack Meeting
and give the same encouragements.  This will net a few and help with a
little peer fear/pressure.  Nobody likes being seen as a non-contributor. 
Let them know that, if you don't see their names, you'll help them find
something.  Then the Pack's leadership can divide the missing names
and follow-up with one-to-one invitations.  

A great selling point, when you begin to hear excuses is to tell them that
what the Cub Scout program offers is what each parent would like to give
his/her child, if there was enough time and that the advantage is that we
can pool resources to see that each boy gets those things.  This means that
you the parent have to carry your share, which is a lot less than if you
were trying to do all of these things yourself.  Remind them that its not
fair to ask other parents to shoulder their own share and this excuse
maker's as well.  You may lose one or two that don't want the commitment,
but would they have stayed anyway?  

Another point is that there are a lot of folks that are hesitant
to volunteer, especially in hispanic communities.  Some will be honored to 
be asked and to see your trust in them and will respond positively with
encouragement.  One of the best Webelos leaders I ever had sat quietly and
never said a word at meetings for over a year because nobody every asked. 
I saw enthusiasm in his eyes and asked.  A week later he came to a meeting
in full uniform with every patch in the right place, brimming with ideas. 
He took Webelos to camp each year and never missed an activity.  His den
grew and had to be split twice.  

While there is no best solution, consider making it a point to find the
positive attributes of each parent as you get to know them and then use
that as a reason you think they would be good at ________________. 
Remember that they can't say yes, if you don't ask.
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 1994 19:43:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: WEBELOS SCOUT

I am resending this message, because I got a posting from the List
rejecting the message as identical to one already sent.  To my knowledge I
only sent it once.  Be that as it may, here it is again.  If you already
received it, I apologize for the clutter.

Kipp,

While there is a certain amount of rigidity built into the program and
driven by policy there is always some flexibility.  Scouting has always
made exceptions for developmentaly disabled persons.  If the problem here
is one that can be characterized as such a disability, your local Council
probably will be able to help you.

I agree with the comments that it is better that Rhys be allowed to be in
the Webelos-I Den than for him to quit Scouting.  This should be preceded,
however, by a discussion with Rhys' parents and Rhys.

If a disability situation does not exist, they need to know that he won't
be able to stay for a second year and that he will have to move to Boy
Scouting.

Still its better that he get a taste.  Maybe after a few months, he will
be ready to shift and things can be reevaluated.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
                ____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 01:34:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Awards Chairman Woes

Tammy,

Sometimes parents are a more trouble than the peskiest Scout.  Sounds like
this mother is trying to use her son to substitute for recognition she
wants or was deprived of in her childhood and making up for lost time. 
Whew.  

The Cub Scout program is designed to be family oriented.  During the Wolf
and Bear years especially, the parent is the judge of whether his/her son
did their best and completed a requirement for the rank or arrow point(s).
This leaves the program vulnerable to parents who want the patchs for
their children more than the child.  About the best we do is try to
privately counsel them that this recognition is pretty empty.  The Scout
knows what he did or did not do.  The award has little meaning for a Scout,
if he didn't really earn it.  Help the parent understand that they may be
doing more harm than good by teaching their son that it is ok to fudge
(cheat) to get recognition.  Pride and self-esteem come from the Scout
doing his own work and learning that he can do it.  Beyond that we really
have to accept the parent's word that a requirement has been passed.

This does not mean, however, that such a parent should be advancement
chairman.  I think you're right to be concerned and initiate action to get
a different person this year.  The Pack Committee or the Chartering
Organization can certainly change things here.  She may have volunteered
and want the position, but that does not create an entitlement.  Its up to
the Committee.

For other awards, the new advancement person can use discretion to check
to see that requirements are being met.  

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Tue, 23 Aug 1994 00:06:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: What do you do with JASMs?

Alan,

More than 25 years ago I was a JASM.  My SM made it clear that the SPL
would run the Troop using the Patrol method and that I was not to suplant
the SPL.  My duties then included:

*  Preliminary Scoutmaster Conferences - Reviewing Scouting Skills,
   Requirements, and Spirit followed by an ASM/SM Conference on Growth
   and Goals.

*  Conducting in-house training for newly elected Troop Officers

*  Serving as an advisor to Troop Officers

*  Monitoring Troop Instructors

*  Delegated signature authority for requirements (Tenderfoot to First Class)

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 02:07:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Fundraisers & Cub Scout Dues

Barb raised an interesting point when she said her Pack used monthly
raffles.  Most of us would consider them harmless at first glance. 
However, remember from Basic Training that raffles are not an approved
method of securing funds.  The subject of money-earning projects is
discussed in Chapter 6 of the Cub Scout Leader Book.  At page 84 the BSA
policy is spelled out, "The plan must be free of gambling, in harmony with
local laws, and consistent with the ideals of Scouting.  (Raffles are not
an approved method of securing funds.)"  

When a Pack decides to ignore the rules, its teaching its Scouts its okay
to ignore rules as well or at best sending confusing signals.  

Why not try a monthly silent auction, bake sales, etc.?  Any kind of
fundraiser that involves the Scouts will tend to teach thrift and help the
boys to learn some valuable lessons.  Adult money-raisers may be
expedient, but at the same time don't teach much.

Consider planning a budget with Pack/Den dues to cover most of the program
to start and begin with a small fund-raiser to get it going.  Most
Councils have popcorn or other campaigns that can be used with the added
benefit that the sales also support Scouting at the Council level.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date:         Fri, 2 Sep 1994 10:08:16 PDT
From: Rodger Morris <rlm@SUNED1.NSWSES.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Resignations Are Sometimes Necessary

>     In my life I have found that a resignation seldom if ever gets the
>message across.  People respond to the action (resignation) rather than to
>the message and the issues involved.  People think that the SM resigned in
>anger and that he or his ability to handle the situation were the problem.
>Nothing is gained.  I would support the suggestion that he stay and fight for
>change.  I do understand the feeling involved and would understand the decision
>to resign, but. . . . .
>
Sometimes resignation is justified. I was Scoutmaster of the Troop in which
I had once been a Scout. My Committee Chairman was also on the governing
board of the church that sponsored my Troop, and her husband was the
Chartered Organization Representative. Her husband was a well-meaning
individual, but was unable to curb her excesses. Whenever she didn't like
something in the Troop program and couldn't get the Troop Committee to go
along with her, she brought it up as an agenda item for the church board and
got the board to adopt her position without hearing any other input.

Example: "Rodger, the church board has decided that playing British Bulldog
is contrary to the principles of Christianity and Methodism. You are
directed to have the Troop cease playing this game immediately. From here
on, you are directed to limit games to 10 minutes per meeting and to play
only games such as knot tying relays and tent pitching races that are
directly scoutcraft oriented." (Or words to that effect)

When I asked for an opportunity to provide input to the church board's
decision making process in re the Troop program, I was told, "You are not a
member of this church, so you are not permitted to attend church board
meetings. This church owns the Troop, and you will do as you are told!", or
words to that effect.

When I found that this individual was checking with the council office to
see if she could cashier me from Scouting for "insubordination to the Troop
Committee Chairman", it was obvious that one of the two of us had to go. I
had enough votes in the Troop Committee to overrule her, but her vindictive
behavior in similar situations outside of Scouting led me to the conclusion
that she would destroy the Troop, if that were necessary to "win".  The
church was unwilling to rein her in. I was unwilling to see my Troop die
over a matter od principle. So, with almost 25 years in Scouting with that
Troop, I resigned in June of 1993 as Scoutmaster and started to work on my
master's degree. Several days later, I was asked to join the district
committee as Public Relations chairman.

I've kept my hand in at the unit level by founding a Troop and two Packs in
the past year (with another Troop due to go on-line this month), by serving
as Assistant Scoutmaster, district Public Affairs chairman, and by founding
and serving as chairman of the American Legion Post #741 of Camarillo's
standing committee on Scouting.

Ironically enough, it is arguable that I have done more good for Scouting
since ceasing to be Scoutmaster than I did as Scoutmaster, at least insofar
as total numbers are concerned. I had built my previous Troop up from 4 to
37 active Scouts over a 31 month period. Since I resigned as Scoutmaster 14
months ago, the new Troop has gone from 5 to 21 Scouts with another 3
prospective members, the first Pack has 11 boys, and the second Pack has 23
boys. I believe we will have at least 10-12 boys in the upcoming new Troop.
Counterbalancing that is the fact that the old Troop has dropped to about 20
active boys.

Had it not been for this vindictive and power-motivated individual, I would
not have resigned as Scoutmaster when I did and the new units in my
community would not have come into being where and when they did to serve
more boys. Truly, "The Great Master of all Scouts" sometimes works in
strange ways.....

Yours in Scouting,

Rodger

 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 23:07:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Introduction of Myself to Discussion Group
To: "James D. Tucker" <ZJT@CU.NIH.GOV>

Jim,

Welcome aboard.  

Building a Troop can be a daunting experience, but its not hard if you can
get a reputation for having great (fun) programs.  Consider having each
Scout invite two friends to join them on a fun activity trip; e.g. to a
water park or amusement park followed by a cook-out.  Most kids die for a
chance to just go have fun.  Once they've nibbled, pull in the line and
have the Scouts tell a bit about the Troop.  Save the invites until later
- postcard (kids love mail) and a follow-up call from a Scout.  That may
get things going.  Afterwards make sure to get the reputation for camping
or outing once a month every month no cancellations.  The word will get
out and things will build.  Also invite local Webelos 2 Dens to activities
and campouts where you have things planned that they can do and have lots
of fun.  When crossover time rolls around, you'll have a new patrol or two.
Best of luck.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date:         Tue, 6 Sep 1994 23:11:38 CST
From: "Settummanque, the blackeagle" <waltoml@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Paul's "Eagle"

Mike (Professor Beaver) wrote earlier:

>Looks like Paul has given us his Council's address.  Here are a >couple of
other addresses that may be of help:

>1.  Rudy Flythe, Regional Director, Northeast Region, BSA, P.O. Box >350,
Dayton, NJ 08810-0350, Telephone 908-821-6500, Fax 908->297-2010.

Before writing to Rudy, write to the Area Director of the Regional Area at
the same address.  I believe you guys are in Area Three of the Northeast
Region, therefore the address would be the same except instead of the
Regional Director, it should go to the Regional Area Director, Area Three,
Northeast Region BSA.

All Rudy will do is forward it to the Regional Director of Operations, whom
will forward it to the Area Director.  More time.

>2.  T.J. VanHouten, National Director of Advancement, Boy Scouts >of
America, National Office, 1325 West Walnut Hill Lane, P.O. Box >152079,
Irving, Texas 75015-2079, Telephone 214-580-2000 >(switchboard I think?).

That's right...T.J's number is 2021, I believe.

(Professor Beaver's following comments are noteworthy:)

>I would suggest that before there is a rush to swamp these folks >with an
angry comment or complaint that we take a second to put >ourselves in their
shoes.  The two above addressees probably have >no idea of Paul's situation
and most likely would be interested in >seeing that justice is served.

That is, unless the Regional Area Director has notified them of the Council's
situation, Mike, as they do when they have their monthly meetings the third
or last Monday of the month in Dayton.

>I'm sure that you will relate to them the information that Paul >has
provided the list.  Realize that from their viewpoint, they'll >want to hear
the other side of the story before responding or .answering our questions.

This is especially the case in T.J.'s case.  He'll have someone from his
office to contact the Council Scout Executive and talk with him about the
situation, can it be salvaged for all concerned and if neccessary, to apply
the "screws" to the Scout's dad (in the way of those infamous "letters") to
do what is right.

Of course, if this person has given the Council buke-kho big bucks, don't
count on a simple letter from the Council Executive as a quick remedy!

What *needs to be done* in this case is that the kid and the dad need to be
sent to the woodshed and Paul and the Troop's Committee chair apply the thick
paddle to their buns!!!

>Maybe the best thing is for us to encourage just that - a good >look-see
from National.

When the application arrives there without the signature of the Scoutmaster,
it *will be sent back* along with a form letter from Rayna (the admin
assistant in his office) informing the Council Scout Executive of the
ommission.  THIS IS THE REASON WHY I HAVE ALWAYS STATED THAT THE SCOUTMASTER
HAS THE FINAL SAY!  If the application reaches National without the Committee
signature, it will be sent back to the Council and they will call the
Committee chair in (or get a verbal okay to sign for him or her).

But a SCOUTMASTER'S SIGNATURE has to come from the REGISTERED SCOUTMASTER of
that Troop; the REGISTERED COACH of that Varsity Team; or the REGISTERED
ADVISOR of that Explorer Post or REGISTERED SKIPPER of that Explorer Ship.

Nobody else will do.  They match up the names of the Scoutmaster against the
charter of the unit (something that they have been doing for quite some time
now!)

>It may be best to have someone with a little distance from the >situation to
have a healthy and fair look at the facts and >situation with a view towards
making sure that the aims and >methods of Scouting are not compromised.
Evaluate-evaluate->evaluate.

Mike, that's the job of the Council's Scout Executive.  Part of his or her
job is to look at each and every Eagle application that comes in the office
and apply his John Hancock or Susan B. Anthony to that document.  Again, this
cannot be delegated, according to National policy.  It it that Council Scout
Executive's approval that starts the ball rolling at National.

If he or she let that application ride up to National, expect this person to
also feel the heat from the National/Regional Program
folks!  Heat for professionals are STEAMING!!

>Paul, no doubt this has been an agonizing experience for you.  >Although
many of us have been urging you to stay on for a variety >of reasons, we also
know that you have to make a call.  Whatever >your final outcome, know that
you have a lot of Scouting friends >out here to support you.

And that goes triple for me.  Start with your Council Scout Executive and
work your way upward.  Next would come his boss the Regional Area Director
and then go to Rudy.  In the meantime,
cc: all of the correspondence to both T.J. and to your Council Scout
Executive.  Good or bad, the Council Executive wants to know what you have
said to National because as sure as I'm sitting here on America Online {tm},
he'll get a copy of your letter and their proposed answers either in a direct
fax or by pouch mail the next week!

Settummanque!

Mike L. Walton (writing from America Online {tm} because I'm
     extremely overquota on my WKU account!!!)
Bowling Green, Kentucky

From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: New SPL's Parents

Alan,

The situation you describe is appalling; e.g. linking SPL with Mother
being president of mother's club.  The Troop in question needs to be
reminded that Scouting is for Scouts and their development, not parents. 
It is grossly unfair to link a Scout's opportunities in a troop to the
level of his parents' participation in another function.  If the Troop has
a problem with a parent that won't participate, it needs to address that
problem separately, but not by punishing the Scout by establishing a
non-regulation criteria for holding the Office of SPL.  

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 02:40:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Girls with Venture Crew & Troop?

So far as I know BSA has not authorized coed venture programs.  The only
place in BSA programs were coed units are authorized is Exploring.  If you
know of something different, I'd sure like to see the rule cited that
allows it.  

I'd also be leery of allowing coed participants without registration. 
This would cause some real problems regarding liabiity, if anything were
to happen on an outing.  BSA registration is necessary for youth members
to partipate in the program. And as you know, in Exploring female members
like male members must be registered.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date:         Sun, 23 Oct 1994 12:00:31 -0400
From: Paul Miles <SARASPA@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Troop 18 Update

Now that I am back on the list I can relate whats been happenin' in this
seemingly never ending incident. For those not aware of this situation,
please read the late Aug-earlySept of Scouts-l. There is more to it, but in a
nutshell, I am a SM who is appealing the submission of an Eagle application
to National.

Troop 18 is making a good effort to regroup after/during this problem. Many
parents have expressed an interest to help. District came to us and provided
a training night for prospective new leaders. Handouts, videos, the whole
show. We have some promising people coming onboard.

Our attendance at meetings has been low, < 50%, due to parents not wanting to
get involved with our Eagle candidate, and his parents       ( The TRIO). The
chartering organization had sent them a letter in early Sept. stating that
they are not welcome and should seek another troop. They however, continue to
come to the meetings with Dad sitting in a corner and glowering at everyone
he preceives to be not on his side and the boy wearing his Eagle . Very
disruptive. Parents won't commit to helping until he is no longer there.
Since the letter was not enough, the CO (a vol. fire  dept.) met and the full
membership voted to angain inform the TRIO that they are not welcome, only
this time through their attorney, and if they show, they will be considered
trespassers. The show-down is Thursday night. Once they are gone, the
re-birth of Troop 18 will continue.

The boys are doing their best, they did miss the fall Camporee, they were
able to attend during the day on Saturday. They have an overnight planned
this coming week-end, they are building a signal tower and will later work on
our continuing Adopt-a Road service project. Boys being boys, they seem to
have a good sense of what is right and are doing their best. I am VERY proud
of them. They, inspite of us parents, will make this scouting year a success.

I am SM in name only until such time as a replacement can be found. I do not
attend meetings but do try and help the new adult leaders and the troop as
much as possible. I had previously noted that I and members of the committee
were in fear of attacks of a personal nature that could have serious affects
on our personal lives. These fears, I found out were not unfounded. I work
for a state gov. agency and have used my work computer for access to scouts-l
and personal E-mail to people on the list. I also have used my work phone for
scout related calls. The father of the eagle candidate was boasting various
people in the District that he was coming after me. He was unable to be
pursaded not to. He filed complaints about my misuse of state resources and
notified everyone from the Govenor, his elected rep., my commissioner and
personel department. I have had to appear at an interogation (with my lawyer,
and union rep) and answer questions regarding my computer/E-mail use and
explain my phone usage. I answered truthfully and tried to explain the
circumstances while admitting that I was wrong to do the things I did.  The
case has been escalated to a disciplinary action and I will need to go to a
hearing. As I understand it, I will luck out and get to keep my job in
exchange for a letter of reprimand and a fine of $1,000 - $2,000. Others have
also been affected. A parent called the council office to complain about the
father sitting in meetings and staring at  the scouts, he was called back
shortly by the father and told ...I got Miles in trouble at work and you
could be next...  A former committee  man's son has searched and questioned
regarding drugs at school, based upon anonymous tips. These episodes appear
to be unfounded knowing the boy and his family.

One good thing that came about as a result of my previous posting and your
responses was that someone who sat on the Secret BoR was informed of our
troubles ... kind of like  a troop near you is having problems.. when he read
the E-mail he realized that he sat on the Bor. He investigated and realized
his error and has changed his vote to a negative. His letter doing so has
been forwarded to national.

So thats where we are. We are trying to make a go of it and I'm sure we will
succeed. I miss the activity and working with the boys even though it was
"only one night a week".

Thanks for your support these past months. Your kind words and phone calls
make me feel proud to be associated with you all.

Paul Miles, SM Troop 18

Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 22:39:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Troop 18 Update
To: Paul Miles <SARASPA@AOL.COM>

Paul,

Your courage in this difficult situation is to be commended.  This jerk
may have won one round and have done his best to hurt those who tried to
the right thing, but in the end things have a way of working out.  I know
that won't soften the blow to the wallet or reduce the legal fees.  I
don't know the laws in your jurisdiction, but some states have regulations
that require state employees to be explars of citizenship and to foster
good citizenship as a general duty.  If your state has any written policy
or regulation of such a nature, your lawyer may be able to make arguments
that you were acting in furtherance of state policies by working with an
organization that is dedicated to developing the best citizenship values
among youth and as such the resources were expended in furtherance of
state purposes.  Just a thought.  After all it ain't over yet.  Would it
help if one of us were to write a letter to your Governor?

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date:         Sun, 23 Oct 1994 16:41:03 -0400
From: "Michael C. Horowitz" <mhorowit@CAP.GWU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Troop 18 Update

Paul - I'm not in the legal profession, but what you are describing almost
sounds like "stalking" - can anyone lend a working definition? - Mike

Date: Sun, 23 Oct 1994 23:26:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Troop 18 Update

Mike Horowitz raised the question of whether the parent who has tried to
intimidate was stalking.  Mike's basic instinct here I think is good. 
There is an area of tort law called abuse of process that may be
applicable here.  It works like this:  If a person brings or causes an
action to be brought against a second individual with an ulterior purpose;
e.g. a collateral advantage, and if the purpose is accomplished by a willful
act not proper in the regular conduct of the proceedings, the person
who caused the legal action to be initiated may be liable for damages, even if
the action against the second person was successful.  Some court opinions
have compared such actions as similar to extortion to obtain a benefit by
threats or actual use of legal process.

For example, if a person causes another to be brought up for
administrative charges that prove successful, but did so for the purpose
of accomplishing an entirely different objective that gains an advantage
for himself, he may be found to be abusing the legal process and subject 
to a lawsuit for damages.

Now this is a general statement of how the law works in most
jurisdictions.  I am not familiar with the law where Paul is and can't say
how the courts there view this kind of action, this is something best left
to Paul and his attorney.  It could be that the parent may be subject to
this form of tort liability, if a Court were to find that he was using the
legal process to intimidate or coerce others to avoid taking actions
regarding the questionable manner in which his son was able to obtain an
Eagle badge and medal through his influence and schemes.

This is an area where the Courts in the different states are not always of
the same mind and where a lot depends on available evidence.  Again, I
think this is something best left between Paul and his attorney to evaluate.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

 

Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 22:18:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@capaccess.org>
Subject: Re: Dropped Scouts?
To: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>

Charlotte,

In your posting you mentioned that the chartered organization provides
almost everything, that you limit the size of your unit, and that you
have boys waiting to take the places of those who don't attend. 

What size is your unit limited to?  
Is it large enough to have several patrols, an ASPL, and an SPL?
Why is the size limited?
Is it a function of what the leadership can handle?
Can your unit recruit more ASMs to handle more boys?
How many boys are interested, but not being served?
Are there enough to form a second unit?
Are these boys referred to other local units, if you can't handle them?

I realize that there are real constraints on how many Scouts any unit can
handle and stay healthy, but I sure hate see Scouting turning boys away or
not opening the door.  If you can't handle these boys, talk with your
Commissioner and DE.  

As to the Scouts that don't seem to appreciate the kindness of their
benefactor - this may be a symptom that they don't have ownership.  They
don't learn by getting things free - challenge them to earn the stuff
through service hours via your Troop's PLC.  Let the PLC tackle the
problem and you'll be amazed at the solutions the boys come up with. 
Trust them . . . and if necessary let them make mistakes.  They'll
probably come up with solutions to both ownership and attendance.  

While the PLC is tackling this problem, this is a great opportunity for
the Scoutmaster to check-in with both the parents of the absent Scouts and
these Scouts - ask why they are not coming.  What is it that they are
interested in?  What would they like to do?  This will establish that they
can't pretend to be at the meeting when they're not without being
confrontational if done right.  It will also establish that the Troop is
interested in what they want.  You can relay the results to the PLC, who
then can get more input and tailor planning accordingly.

Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
Prof. Beaver, Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA mfbowman@CAPACCESS.ORG

Date: Thu, 20 Jul 1995 02:08:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: What I did on Summer Vacation <g>

Charlotte,

Sorry you had to endure a week with leaders that confused boot camp 
methods with Scouting methods.  I went through one of those weeks as an 
ASPL with a wonderful, but sometimes overly tough Marine Lt. SM.  He was 
trying hard, just hadn't learned the Scouting methods.  I recall our Camp 
Commissioner having a long talk with him, while a staff member diverted 
us for a couple of hours with firebuilding, etc.  Fortunately, he got the 
message and things improved for us.  We had just thought he was a little 
too tough sometimes with pushups and the like and tolerated it.  Didn't 
know any different in those days.  

That started me to wondering whether these leaders were properly trained 
and most of all where was the Camp Commissioner?  As a former Program 
Director, I find it hard to believe that a camp would operate without 
having commissioners visiting sites as well as other staff.  Surely they 
must have noticed, its not that hard to get a pretty good feel for how a 
unit is operating by mid-week.  And if there is a problem it should be 
addressed.

My concern is for the boys that stay - like Pete I wonder what will 
happen with them.  Many of them are going to see this as what Scouting is 
all about.  They have no other point of reference.  There is no place in 
Scouting for leadership by intimidation and physical punishment.  And if 
this is what the Scouts see, I suspect they won't be Scouts very long.

I certainly agree  that you are better off moving to a better unit.  
Sometimes it is also easier to try to fix a problem of this sort when 
you don't have to worry about whether your own child will be the victim 
of reprisal.

Based on what you have said about the heat, humidity and situation, their 
conduct may well be classified as physical and/or emotional abuse.  As 
you no doubt are aware BSA's YPP guidelines require the reporting of any 
suspected abuse.  Given the circumstances, I think you are obliged to 
discuss this matter with the Council Scout Executive, who should be made 
aware of the circumstances immediately.  He can work through the 
Commissioner staff to improve the way this Troop operates, and take 
action if he feels abuse was present.  He also should be aware that this 
took place on a property under his Council's control and be concerned as 
to why his staff was not aware of what was going on.

Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
DDC-Training, GW Dist. Nat Capital Area Council mfbowman@CAPACCESS.ORG

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 02:06:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Parent Leaders with Scouts

Steve,

Your description of the "Parent-Scout" leaders fits a few that I have run 
into in the past.  As an SM it is agonizing to watch the Scout be 
smothered or subordinated to the parent's desire to relive their own 
youth and make Eagle the second time around.  It is difficult when you 
are trying so hard to foster growth and self-esteem to see the sons of 
these parents so dependent that you wonder whether their quietness and 
immature personality characteristics are the result of an over-bearing 
adult to child relationship.  Its never easy to watch and makes you wish 
you could intervene.

However, this is the point where sometimes we have to remember that there 
are going to be some problems that we are not equiped to solve or simply 
can't fix.  Sounds like you've tried first aid; e.g. talking with the two 
ASMs, but that it didn't take.  May be that they would benefit from 
family counseling, but that's really not our call as leaders in such a 
situation. Even with this situation the two Scouts are being exposed to a 
lot of growth opportunities and though it would be better if they did 
everything on their own, its still better to have them participating as 
best than for them to have stayed in a domineering household with no 
opportunity for interaction with the other Scouts (siver lining in 
otherwise dark cloud).  

In some of these situations you may have to make the best of the 
situation and augment with other ASMs to cover the gap to see that the 
rest of the Scouts are getting adult support as needed.  This is a damage 
control sort of approach.  As time passes you could continue to give them 
more feedback about how other Scouts see them and their sons and suggest 
alternatives while they are nodding yes.  I like Alan's question about 
whether the ASM would hire someone at work at an interview if the 
interviewee was accompanied by his parent.

If the behavior of these ASMs is disruptive, the chartered organization 
and/or committee can decided not to keep them as leaders.  The Scouts in 
such a case would be allowed to remain and the parents might be allowed to 
attend, but not as leaders.

If these two ASMs haven't been trained, get them to SM Fundamentals where 
they can be part of a patrol and do all the things they like to do.  The 
experience with other leaders external to their situation and group 
discussions at the patrol site sometimes does wonders. If it didn't take 
at SM Fundamentals, consider sending them to Wood Badge. <g>  Again 
they'll have the same opportunity to relive patrol life, but with the 
bonus of getting a ticket to work to earn their beads, something that 
might require enough time and energy away from their sons (especially if 
the Counselor is cued) that they may transfer some of their own 
achievement earning behavior away from their sons to their own goals 
(growing up late).  In the process of working their tickets and working 
with their counselors, they may also learn much more about the program, 
how to do it, and end up not being as bad.

You could also take note of the merit badges each ASM "has earned" with 
his son and ask him to be a counselor for it with other Scouts during 
parts of an outing after a suitable lead-in about how well he 
demonstrated skil x and how good it would be to share that with other 
Scouts. Meanwhile his own son escapes to do other stuff on his own.

Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
DDC-Training, GW Dist. Nat Capital Area Council mfbowman@CAPACCESS.ORG

Date:         Mon, 18 Sep 1995 13:24:45 -0400
From: "Paul H. Brown" <phbrown@CapAccess.org>
Subject:      Re: Campout ended on bad note

Parents need to realize that they take on a different role when they are
with the scouts: they are adult leaders of scouts, not parents of
individual boys.  A wise SM taught me, when helping first year campers at
summer camp, "Don't start your help with your son.  Don't finish your
help with your son."

That being said, your CC mom needs to "chill."  The boy leaders need to
deal with the boys, at least in the first instance.  The boy leaders are
more difficult to "con" than mom is.

Has the CC been to a SM fundamentals course?  Does she understand the
"game" that is scouting?  Does she accompany her son on all the troop
outings, to "protect" him from the vicious, uncouth curs that other
parents send on the camping expeditions?

The adults n the troop need to have training for their roles.  Even
unregistered parents need to know where they fit in: when intervention by
adults is appropriate, and when it isn't.  And which adult should do so.
Part of the scouting game is for boys to get themselves into "fixes," and
then figure out how to get themselves out of them.  This includes
interpersonal "fixes," as well as the "which trail do we take now" kind.
When mom is there to rescue, there is no opportunity for the scout to grow.

YiS

Paul H. Brown, UC, GW District, National Capital Area Council
and a scout dad
phbrown@capaccess.org

From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Tue Sep 19 02:04:40 1995
To: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: BSA Troop Leadership Issues

In reading both Paul Brown's and Sara Duff's postings about problems with 
a committee and a committee chair, the first thing that comes to mind is 
that in both cases it seems that the actors are not well acquainted with 
the Scouting game and could do with some training to understand how a boy 
run program should work.  In both cases we have adults who will or are 
hurting the delivery of a quality Scouting program to the Scouts.  The 
first step seems to be educating them about how the program is supposed 
to work, the methods and aims of Scouting, and things that are not 
acceptable.  

In re:  Troop Changes

Paul, please invite your entire committee to the Great George Washington 
District's Camporee. :-) On Saturday we will be holding Basic Unit 
Committee Training preceded by a group screening of the Fast Start video. 
We'll be covering the aims, methods, etc. of Scouting and provide a 
discussion forum for "how to" information.  Some of the staff are from 
LDS units and will be able to address issues related to your Chartered 
Organization.  Paul, you should also be talking to the ADC responsible 
for your service area and our District Manger (New title folks - from 
BSA-HQ) .  Lets start with education and bring some experienced folks in 
to help work out things.  We need to make sure that the Troop doesn't end 
up as some unrecognizable abberation of Scouting by keeping the boys in 
leadership spots and making sure that as many Scouts as possible can go 
on outings, recognizing some limits on the Blazers.   

In re: Campout ended on bad note

Aside from education, this posting rang some alarm bells for me.  The
immature 15 year old in this situation is a real problem.  And it sounds
like you are in a tough spot with his mom being CC and not a good judge of
how to react.  I agree completely with Chris that the SM needs to let all
know that he is "mom" on campouts and would go further in saying that he
should tell parents to work problems through him and not directly with the
boys, this will allow him to make use of the PLC to figure out fixes.  
But back to the problem.  The immature 15 year old's conduct is 
unacceptable. Sure boys this age rough it up once in awhile, but this 
seems like more than the usual.  Whether his conduct amounts to assault 
or not would depend on the facts and local law, but it sounds like he may 
have crossed the line.  For the other Scouts this can lead to some 
wanting to quit to avoid having to put up with this nonesense.  His 
mother's conduct as described might rise to verbal abuse with the same 
result. Neither type of conduct is something that can be condoned or 
allowed to continue.

There are some alternatives that might be useful to consider here and you 
may want to try one or a few of them:

1.  If you think the situation can be salvaged, try starting with 
education and involve the Chartered Organization Representative and your 
Unit/Assistant District Commissioner.

2.  You may need to work with your COR and Institutional Head to review 
whether they will allow this person to continue to be committee chair. 
They have the power to "fire" her.  They own the unit.

3.  The Unit needs to make clear that the boy's "jumping on other Scouts" 
behavior is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.  There is no need 
to sacrafice the welfare of the Scouts for this one.

4.  Perhaps it is time to encourage this Scout to leave the unit and get 
a fresh start elsewhere; e.g. an Explorer Post where the Mom won't be as 
easily able to be part of the problem and where peer pressure will 
probably prevent many problems.

5.  Have an SM Conference or BOR for the Scout on his progress - find out 
where he's at.  Why he is acting the way he is. Develop a contract with 
him about expectations and obligations. Caveat:  This may not be 
advisable if there is a clinical problem that needs professional help.

6.  Invite your ADC/UC to sit in on the next Committee Meeting and review 
the problem and solicite their advice.  Sometimes it helps when the 
critique is from a disinterested third party.

Bottomline:  You have the best handle on the facts and people.  Assess 
what will be the best for the Scouts in the Troop and use your people 
resources to tackle the problems.  

Date:         Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:19:24 -0600
Subject:      Re: Help - CM w/ son going to another Troop(long)

At 11:55 AM 4/4/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Hello everyone; I have a small problem - I think.

>Bottom Line: My son wants to QUIT this TROOP because of this  - and we have
>brought this to the young SM (26) and he said mention that this is part of
>growing up.

The SM may be the one who needs to grow up. Scouting is a special place. We
live by the Oath and Law. The SM must set this example. When he tolerates
less on the basis of "boys will be boys" he is just not getting it.  You
steps in moving to a new troop seem the best answer.  Even if the SM pledges
to clean up his act (he is the responsible party after all), I would not put
your son through the risk.  You can be patient, but at 12 or 13 life is just
to short for that kind of patience. A Scout should not have to wait for this
behavior change in his troop. Your SM's attitude must have been a real
disappointment. (I wonder if your SM has ever taken training. Perhaps he
needs to do so. He will find all he needs in the SM Handbook, and at
Scoutmastership Fundamentals (basic SM training). All troop leaders should
have completed this course). Yours SM may also just be too young and/or too
close to the boys to let him control/influence the behavior in the troop.

>However, now here my concerns. I am a Cub Master which a part of my job is to
>promote/encourage my Webelos to go up and join the Boy Scouts Program or
>expose them of it - with the same Church correct???? My own personal feeling
>are playing a Major role here - because I totally disagree with the events
>that took place ( I really don't want to get into more detail here - but I
>will reply privately ) and how it was handled by the SM. So here I am a CM
>and supposed to encourage MY CUBS who I devoted my whole time to and LOVE
>VERY MUCH - to promote them to a Boy Scout Program which I disagree with. Boy
>- this is VERY TOUGH to do because it goes against what MY Heart Believes.

Your heart, Scouting, the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. That IS the bottom
line. I think your idea of a meeting with the Troop Committee is an
excellent one. I would suggest that you also talk with your Chartered
Partner Representative (the person in the church who serves as a
council-member-at-large for all Scouting in the Church. Your best bet is to
have a quiet chat beforehand with the Minister. Put him in the picture.

>I have scheduled a meeting with the Boy Scouts Board for this Troop to go
>over the issues to readdress the IDEA of Scouting and what is ALL ABOUT for
>the Boys.

You have it right. You care and that is most important.

I offer the following excerpt from Scoutmastership Fundamentals (1995
Printing).  You might want to share this with your Minister and the troop
committee. It is the official statement of the BSA and certainly applies here.

The Mission of the Boy Scouts of America: "It is the mission of the Boy
Scouts of America to serve others by helping to instill values in young
people and in other ways prepare them to make ethical choices over their
lifetime in achieving their full potential."

Caring Adults: "... bringing the values of Scouting through requires the
effective training of adult leaders in understanding how youth grow and
develop, in creating an environment for learning and growth, and in
providing them with activities and meaningful experiences that reinforce
positive values."

And this is the clincher (right from Fundamentals. It is in Wood Badge and
the Junior Leader Training Conference, too).

Scouting is a special place: "The rules are the ones we know well -- the
Scout Oath and the Scout Law.

We create a safe haven in Scouting, a place where everyone should feel
physically and emotionally secure.   We do this in several ways:

-- We set the example for ourselves and others by always behaving as Scouts
should. We live the Scout Oath and Law each moment of each day, to the best
of our abilities.

-- We refuse to tolerate any kind of inappropriate put-down, name-calling,
or physical aggression.

-- We communicate our acceptance of each participant and each other through
expressions of concern for them and by showing our appreciation whenever
possible.

-- We create an environment based on learning and fun.  We seek the best
from each participant, and we do our best to help him achieve it."

Creating a Safe Haven: "... creating a safe haven is best accomplished by
personal example.  Your attitudes, your example and your expectations will
set the tone."

I hope these statements will be of value. They really explain who we are.
Scouting is, as B-P said, "a game with a purpose."

Yours in Scouting,
Lew Orans
Sam Houston Area Council
Houston, Texas

Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 15:11:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Troops Living Together (long)

Todd,

Boy what a tale of woe you tell.  Two Packs and Troops thriving but 
bumping heads over turf.  This has got to be sending some real 
conflicting messages to the youth members that are counter-productive to 
the aims of Scouting.

Let me suggest a few things that may or may not work, but ought to be 
eye-openers.

1.  Invite the CC, SM, Pack CC, CM and COR(s) to a meeting at a neutral 
site after you have a committment from your DC and DE to be there no ifs 
ands or buts.  Plan this at a Church where there is a meeting room that 
can be shut off.  Anyone else arriving kindly ask them to wait downstairs 
in the fellowship hall, etc. and they will be briefed of the results later.

2.  Make a pitch on Boy Leadership, Patrol Method and the Aims of 
Scouting. Show a quick video of great fun stuff.  Yea, starting sound 
like crazy - what's going on here?

3.  Get all to agree this is what it is all about.  Boys having fun, 
growing, etc.

4.  Now you get to it.  Point out that the facts are that the adult 
Scouters are starting to interfer in this process by undercutting, 
squabbling, etc.  That the kids are quick to pick this up.  Careful - 
keep it light and upbeat not condensending and nasty.  Work through it 
with leading and open questions.  Control this discussion closely.
Even if it gets warm, okay. Stop things with the Scout sign.  Point out 
that this is an example of what we're concerned with.  We are all so 
eager to succeed, we're kinda bumping into each other wasting energy, 
making enemies of good friendly folks, getting mad at wonderful people.

5.  Start selling for dear life.  Offer alternatives.

    a.  Cooperative joint unit fund-raisers 

    b.  Territories for sales

    c.  Draw lots for who sells trees, other party gets wreaths, etc.

    d.  Joint advertising, separate sales

    e.  LEAVE IT TO THE PLCs to have a joint session and come up with
        a plan that the Scouts think is fair !!!!!  No parents allowed.

    f.  Keep on fighting tooth and nail

6.  Make sure to explain as many benefits and negatives of each way.

7.  Ask for committment to youth and committment to cooperation for youth.

8.  Hold your breath, smile, reward constructive comments with praise and
let the other stuff slide by without getting ruffled.

9.  Summarize direction suggestively.

10. Good luck. You will need it.  

11. Ask the parties to sign a written summary of the agreement and to put 
it in their newsletters.

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 01:17:58 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Leadership

Dan,

Here are a few thoughts you may be able to share with your SM and committee.

When we talk about leadership as a method towards achieving the three 
aims of BSA, we are talking about boy leadership and not adult 
leadership.  The idea is to give boys leadership opportunities where they 
can all learn about leadership.  When a SM appoints a youth leader, that 
youth will learn about leadership by doing, but the rest of the Scouts 
will be deprived of the opportunity to learn about leadership selection.
Why is this such a big deal?  Because this method is directly related to 
the aim of preparing Scouts to be participating citizens.  

How can they learn how to be participating citizens when the model is 
that of a dictator?

The idea is that the Scouts should learn about participating as a citizen 
by taking part in selecting leaders in their own Troop.  Hopefully they 
will learn from bad and good selections how important it is that they 
vote wisely and pick the best leader.  This should carry over to adult 
life when they have the opportunity to vote for leaders in government.  

When they become adults there will not be a benevolent dictator to chose 
the best leader for them.  They will have to be part of the process. What 
better preparation than learning by doing in the Troop.  Sure they may 
make mistakes and that's not bad.  They may well learn much more from the 
mistakes than by doing everything perfectly.

Give them the chance to learn how to be participating citizens in their 
own Troop now and help them to be ready to participate as a citizen in 
adult life.

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 00:07:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Help for a new UC

Jim,

Your mention of two sides and mediating sounds like there is more to the 
story than what you could relate in an e-mail.  Is there more going on 
than just poorly organized meetings?  For example, is there a growing 
rift between factions of parents who are wrestling for control over the 
unit? 

Generally I would advise any Unit Commissioner approaching something like 
this that:

1. First and foremost you should being in a listening mode and find out 
all that you can about the unit before responding too quickly.  Knowing 
who is who, personalities, etc. can be invaluable.  Likewise it helps to 
find out whether there have been past problems in a unit - this might be 
the continuation of something that already has been addressed and needs a 
different approach.  It sounds like you have already gotten a firm start 
in this area by talking with the past Cubmaster.  I'm curious though why 
it was necessary to write a letter to the present Cubmaster.  Was he/she 
unavailable by telephone?  Normally formalizing to this degree can be 
confused with supervising versus advising, which I am sure is not what 
you intended.

2. Be cautious in your approach. A Unit Commissioner is an advisor and 
conduit for information there to serve the unit.  You have to be careful 
not to cross into the area where it appears that you are asserting any 
kind of authority over the unit.  From your posting it sounds like you 
recognized this instinctively, but it never hurts to keep evaluating how 
others will see your actions.  In the meeting you have scheduled your 
idea of explaining your role is an excellent idea, it will go a long way 
towards putting oil on the water, if anyone thought you were trying to 
take charge.

3. Remember that you can leave the problem, but the unit has to live with 
the results.  The people in the unit should be the ones who have 
ownership over the solution.  If they are not, the solution will not have 
a very long life.  Meetings to come head-to-head on an issue can be 
useful, but sometimes you may want to consider whether it is better to be 
more of a behind-the-scenes advisor, letting the unit play more of a role.
You might, for example, coach the Committee Chair on the basics of 
Scouting, run through fast start tapes, answer many questions, and then 
work on what he/she could do to facilitate change, helping him/her to 
develop several alternatives to present to the Pack Committee. 

In your situation, you already have a meeting set that will compress 
things a bit.  Could you meet with the chairman ahead of the meeting, say 
at his house to do a bit of coaching before hand.  This could do a lot to 
keep you more in the background during the meeting allowing the unit to 
address its problems with more ownership.

4. Recognize that as dedicated and excited about having a great program 
as we are, not everyone will understand things as well as you would like 
and from time to time there will be things that don't meet your 
expectations.  Some units are going to have problems that take a long 
time to resolve. Sometimes a problem may defy solution or seem to. It 
will be tempting to try to jump in and fix things.  Sometimes it is 
better to ask questions, present alternatives, explain why some 
alternatives are good and note problems, etc.  The committee may make 
mistakes or not follow your advice.  That is okay. It is bound to happen 
to some degree.  Remember to praise publically any good result and wait 
for private opportunitites to offer helpful constructive criticism.
By being a warm and positive advisor you will probably be welcome back, 
where another who was too critical may be regarded by both sides as an 
unwelcome meddler.

5. Sit back and watch, wait to be asked for help.  In your pre-meeting 
get together with the Committee Chair you can work out some signals for 
when to jump in or arrange for the Chair to ask specific questions. If 
you've been asked, the answers are usually better received than if you've 
asserted a position intrusively.

6. Bring some donuts or snacks to the meeting.  Shake everyone's hand and 
take a minute to thank them for being in Scouting. Smile. Smile. Smile. 
Laugh.  Listen. Engage in a few words of chat to learn about each person. 
Try to remember names.

7. When you speak, thank them for the opportunity to be their guest. Act 
as a guest.

8. If you sense that the committee needs some time to hammer out 
something without an outsider present, excuse yourself to make a 
telephone call, hit the head, take a walk cause your knee is stiff, etc. 
and return when you judge it wise.

9.  When asked an opinion, give alternatives without value judgments on 
any of the people in the unit and take a second to praise anything 
positive that comes to mind.  Sweeten the medicine.  Close any comment by 
returning the ball to their court; e.g. now those are my thoughts. I know 
that you know more about this Pack than I do and what will work or not. 
Maybe some of the rest of you have some ideas and suggestions too.  After 
everyone has made suggestions, I'm sure you can pick the ones that will 
work best for you.  Sit back and enjoy.

10.  Before leaving thank everyone again for being allowed to be a guest 
and for their support of Scouting.  Add a few words of encouragement, 
invite them to the next District event, and thank them again.  Let them 
know that you are available to help via the Committee Chair and Cubmaster 
(this is important - nobody likes to be undercut).  Passing out Scouter 
cards to everyone at the meeting is not a good idea for this kind of meeting.

11. After the meeting, review the situation with your Assistant District 
Commissioner or District Commissioner.  Be honest and invite critical 
comment. Figure out the best plan for follow-up.

12. Follow-up on whatever happens.  This may be a long process of nudging 
success, which seems to work best anyway.

Jim, I know you are a dedicated Scouter facing a tough situation and wish 
you every success in bringing things to a good resolution.  Let us know 
how things turn out.  It is through situations like this that we all 
learn more of what works and what does not.  Even a complete "failure" at 
such a meeting, really never is a "failure", but instead an opportunity 
for learning and re-evaluation.  And successes are always great to hear 
about.  I'd wish you good luck too, but somehow I don't think you'll need 
any luck. :-)

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date: Fri, 8 Mar 1996 22:47:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@tcubvm.is.tcu.edu>
Subject: Re: How do we handle former CC?

Sara,

Sadly, some adults behave worse than the youth and your former Committee 
Chair (CC) seems to be a case in point.  You and your committee have done 
the best thing for the Scouts and though it may be hurtful to have her 
lurking about back-biting, it is time to get on with providing a great 
program for the Scouts you have.  With the passage of time she and her 
complaints will be forgotten as you move forward.

The Scouts do not need to know the details of her departure.  I'm a firm 
believer that it is much better for a unit not to have adult leaders 
making disputes public in front of the Scouts - it detracts and sends 
confusing messages.  Likewise, there is no reason why the parents need to 
know more than they already know.

As to the Commissioner - talk with your DE and ask him to host a meeting 
with your new CC and the District Commissioner, ADC, and UC.  Explain to 
them the program and planned activities of the Troop.  Invite them to 
come see for themselves how the Troop is doing and to offer advice based 
on their experience.  Let them know you are trying your best to deliver 
the promise and ask how they can help.  If discussion moves to the old 
CC, simply tell them that it was the committee's decision that the move 
was in the best interests of the Scouts and is not up for discussion, you 
are only interested in moving forward, will they help you or not?  This 
ought to convey to them that your folks are not the problem without 
saying as much.  A willingness to be open and request for help are hard 
to turn down, if these folks are kind of good Scouters with the interests 
of the Scouts at heart.  I suspect they'll quickly figure things out. 
This way you avoid getting into a lose/lose situation. 

An argument doesn't last very long, if you refuse to participate.  

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org