Author: MICHAEL F. BOWMAN
Company: Attorney at Law

SCOUTS-L
----------
WOOD BADGE

Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 00:29:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: ticket done!
To: Kem White <dkw@APLCOMM.JHUAPL.EDU>

Kem,

>From your address, I take it that you are in the Baltimore Area Council?  

Anyway, there is a Cub Scout Trainers Wood Badge.  It is by invitation
only, usually by the D.E., District Training Chairman, or District Cub
Scout Roundtable Commissioner.  

Its purpose is to teach Cub Scout Leaders involved in training how to train
new Cub Scout Leaders. Of the two types of Wood Badge courses, this one is
regarded as the tougher and also as the most rewarding.  Most find their
lives changed for the better!  

If you are interested, the first step is becoming involved in Cub Scout
Training either on the Cub Scout Leaders' Roundtable Staff or on the
District Training Committee.  Once you have participated in either and
gained the confidence of those folks, you are in a position to discuss Cub
Scout Trainer Wood Badge.  Participation is a prerequisite to being selected!

If you enjoy training, or think you would, I would heartily encourage you
to discuss this with both your Cub Scout Leader Training Committee
Chairman and the Cub Scout Leaders' Roundtable Commissioner.

Another excellent source of information in your are is Steve Letnaunchyn,
who was the Chairman of the Council Committee for the Baltimore Area
Council.  Steve has staffed many of the Wood Badge Courses and I can tell
you from experience is a very remarkable and dedicated Scouter who'll be
glad to chat.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 07:11:20 PDT
From: Kem White <dkw@aplcomm.jhuapl.edu>
Subject: Re: ticket done! 
To: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>

>From your address, I take it that you are in the Baltimore Area Council?  
>
Michael,
Indeed I am in the Baltimore Area Council, National Pike District. 
I appreciate the info. I had heard of WoodBadge but didn't know much about it 
and appreciate your information. I'll be a Bear Den Leader this year (my 1st 
as official den leader), last year a Wolf Den Assistant Leader. I'll probably 
spend a year gaining experience as a leader before looking to train others.
But I have two boys and could well be around Scouting a long time. 
Cheers,
Kem White (OA '68, Eagle '69)
Pack 692, Howard County, MD

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 01:59:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Expensive Wood Badge fee?

Wes,

There is a Wood Badge Scholarship Fund available in George Washington
District and I am one of the trustees.  More by private post...

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 02:00:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Expensive Wood Badge fee?
To: Wes Clark <wclark@PIONEER.USPTO.GOV>

Wes,

I sent a public post to slow down the volume of posting telling you to look
for a scholarship, hope you don't mind.

In George Washington District we do have a modest Wood Badge Scholarship
Fund available for Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge.  However, no one is using
the money this year and it can be made available for Boy Scout Wood Badge
as well.  The way we work it, is to ask the unit to match our contribution
and for the individual to repay the fund as he/she is able.  In extreme
cases where repayment is simply not possible, we make exceptions.  

This fund is not an official BSA fund and is administered soley at the
discretion of its trustees.  The trustees are myself and Jim Bryant.

If you need financial assistance in attending the Wood Badge Course,
please let me know.  Also please let me know whether the unit is willing
to help.  Your response will be held in confidence.

BTW Boy Scout Wood Badge is cheap in comparison to Cub Scout Trainer Wood
Badge at $240.00.  The return on your investment, however, will certainly
be worth any outlay.  A similar management development course offered
commercially would run between $600.00 and $1000.00.  However, I
understand the rub, as well.  I had to sell some old Scouting memorabillia
and some computer stuff to raise my fee when I went to Cub Scout Trainer
Wood Badge - no regrets.  I too thought it a lot to ask, but had to
realize that it was only fair to pay part of the cost of food and materials.  

If I can be of help, please send a private posting or call me at 971-3990.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 02:26:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Looking for Wood Badge Course
To: NorMac4101@AOL.COM

Norman,

The National Capital Area Council (Metropolitan Washington, D.C.,Southern 
Maryland and Northern Virginia) will be offering two Boy Scout Wood Badge 
Courses in the coming year:

1.  Sep 11-12, Oct 1-3, and Oct 15-17, 1994
2.  Apr 29-May 2, May 19-21 and June 3-5, 1995

At present the cost is planned to be at $100.00.

For more information call our Council Office at 301-530-9360 and ask for
the Program Department.  They can either help directly or put you in touch
with the Course Director/Scoutmaster.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 23:29:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Looking for Wood Badge Co...
To: NorMac4101@aol.com

Norm,

It doesn't surprise me, given our international community to learn that
several groups exist, but I am only familiar with the Canadian group.  The
best bet is to contact the Embassy for each.  However, I will ask around
to see what I can find out.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 23:37:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Expensive Wood Badge fee?
To: Wes Clark <wclark@pioneer.uspto.gov>

You indicated that you are interested in week-end courses.  Good news!  We
only offer week-end courses.  They are scheduled as follow:

1.  Sep 11-12, Oct 1-3, and Oct 15-17, 1994.

2.  Apr 29-May 2, May 19-21, and Jun 3-5, 1995.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 21:57:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Wood Badge Course Frequency

National Capital Area Council offers Boy Scout Wood Badge once in the fall
and once in the Spring each year.  Both courses are weekend courses.  We
almost never have a shortage of folks to fill the courses.  

We almost always send strong contingents of Cub Scout Trainers to Cub
Scout Wood Badge Course conducted by the Northeast Region; e.g. 12 out of
64 in a course, and still have a few on the waiting list.

The results of this enthusiasm show.  We had over 570 Eagle Scouts last
year.  Phoenix had a few more for a similarly sized Council.  Greater New
York, however, turned out less than 100.  At Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge,
their Council Patch was not to be seen.  Is there a relationship?  I'd be
interested in seeing whether National or Regional has any stats to show
the relationship between WB and local training to advancement and quality
program.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 22:09:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Wood Badge Scholarship Fund
To: Jeanette <jeckles@sun.cc.westga.edu>

Jeanette,

Our Wood Badge Scholarhip Fund is an unofficial local fund for Cub Scouters
wishing to attend Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge in our District.  We
generally ask the unit to contribute and will match the unit's
contribution.  We also ask that the Scouter repay the fund, as he/she is
able (if able) and add a bit.  The amount isn't large, but it helps.  We
raised the money by asking a few key Scouters to shake loose a few extra
dollars to help a deserving Scouter go to Wood Badge.  Turned out the
person couldn't go anyway.  Consequently, the money is held as a private
trust.  This is probably not the best way to handle it.  BSA would probably
like the money to be held by Council and let them administer it.  However,
the law does allow private individuals to create private trusts for
whatever purpose and BSA really can't say much.  If you are thinking about
the same sort of thing, I would see what your Council's position is.  If
they are willing to allow a scholarship fund and use it as it is intended,
why not?  

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date:         Wed, 31 Aug 1994 12:42:04 -0500
From: John Bemis <jbemis@CASS.MA02.BULL.COM>
Subject:      Re: The Quartermaster Store - Wood Badge

Geoff and John,

                   Another Quartemaster's Song
There are Beavers, Beavers, Beavers, Chopping wood with cleavers.
In the store, in the store.
There are Beavers, Beavers, Beavers, Chopping wood with cleavers.
In the quartermaster's store.

Chorus:
My eyes are dim, I cannot see
I have not brought my specks with me.

There are Robert Robert Robert Whites, Wearing silken tights...
There are Eagles, Eagles, Eagles,
With ears as long as beagles...
There are Foxes, Foxes, Foxes,
Stacking little boxes....
There are Owls, Owls, Owls,
Shredding paper towels...
There are Bears, Bears, Bears,
With curlers in their hair...
There are Buf-a loes,
Dressed in party clothes...
There are An-tel-opes,
Munching cantelopes...
There are Staffers, Staffers, Staffers,
Hanging from the rafters...

 YiS, Jay Bemis, NE I-140 "a good ole Owl", NE I-176 (May 6/7, May 19-21 and
June 2-4, 1995 at Treasure Valley Scout Reservation) Assistant Quartermaster!

Date:         Tue, 20 Sep 1994 09:47:59 -0400
From: Wendy Theriault <wendyt@MIGHTY.RIV.EDU>
Subject:      Back to Gilwell

Just got back from the first weekend of Woodbadge. Great faculty,
wonderful facility and a terrific patrol, but do you know how
hard it is to sing about anteloping ?   Looking forward to the
rest of the course !

                Wendy Theriault
                NE-I-68
soon: "I used to be an antelope"
wendyt@mighty.riv.edu

Date: Thu, 29 Sep 1994 05:00:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: BEAVER GOODIES
To: dduma@OPNAV-EMH.NAVY.MIL

Dave,

The ordering address for Canandian beaver goodies is:

   		Boy Scouts of Canada (Scout Shop)
		1345 Baseline Road, Box 5151 Station F,
		Ottawa, ON CANADA K2C 3G7
		(613) 224-0139 FAX (613) 224-6022

Orders must identify your name, address, telephone number, date, quantity,
articles, catalog number, unit price, subtotals per item, handling for
order ($3.50), 10% surcharge outside of Canada delivery and total amount
enclosed.  Payment can be by Visa or Master Card.

Items you may wish to consider:

Patch  Beavers 			03-533		$ 1.50 ea
Patch  Beavers Have Fun 	03-436		  1.25 ea 
Patch  Beavers Work Hard	03-434		  1.25 ea
Patch  Beaver Patrol		04-602		  1.00 ea  highly recommend
Pin Bronze Beaver		60-384		  2.00 ea  highly recommend
Pin Gilwell			01-405		  3.95 ea
Beaver Baseball Cap with 03-533
  Patch on Front				  4.50 ea
Beaver Shoulder Loops		No Cat.#          NSP*

*  Ask for separate price - normally sold as part of uniform shirts. 
Remember to order left and right side sets.  Less than $2 per set.

If you order by telephone and pay with a credit card delivery runs about
six to eight weeks.  If you mail an order with a check the order runs twelve
or more weeks.  If you fax the order with a credit card charge delivery is
six to twelve weeks.

Hope this is helpful to you.

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 22:33:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: Wood Badge, or Back to Gilwell . . .
To: John Oakes <joakes@UNM.EDU>

John,

"In My Dreams I'm Going Back to Gilwell" sounds like a song I'd like to
hear more about.  It was not part of our songbook.  Would you be willing
to post me the words?

Yours in Scouting, Michael F. Bowman, a/k/a Professor Beaver
Deputy District Commissioner Exploring, GW Dist., NCAC, BSA
Speaking only for myself, but with Scouting Spirit . . .
		____ mfbowman@CAP.GWU.EDU ____

Date:         Tue, 29 Aug 95 10:38:29 EDT
From: Don Izard <IZARD@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>

Michael,

        I was already carring the 'weight' of 50 years of scouting
        in my family.  I carried my father's 1951 edition of the
        Gilwell Book with me.  Unfortunatly, I do not know what
        patrol we was in.  I think He must have been an Owl.
        I am still learning from his wisdom, 10 years after his
        departure from this earth.

        Some day when the lump is gone from my throat, and my eyes
        are clear, I will try to share my story with the list.
        It has to do with a blue heron (bird) that appeared while
        I was alone and sad at my fathers graveside, and how a
        heron was at my son's eagle cermony, and at my woodbage
        patrol campsite (overnite) and the morning of the final
        day of woodbadge.  I am getting chills just typing . . .

scouter Don,
I used to be an Owl, still an eagle

Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 01:11:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Hello and Woodbadge syllabus query

Vince and Bill,

Maybe I can shed some light on the subject.  Bill Hillcourt was the 
Scoutmaster of Wood Badge Course 1 in the U.S.  Hillcourt was selected 
because at the time he was the only national staff member eligible (he 
had received his beads in 1939) for the 1948 course.  When he recieved 
the syllabus from the Boy Scouts International Bureau, he met with Joseph 
Thomas (Wood Badge from Canada) and William E. Lawrence, then Director of 
of the Boy Scouting Service, to review it for use. They also reviewed the 
syllabus from Gilwell Park and several overseas Scout organizations.  These 
three quickly decided that the course should cover the requirements from 
Tenderfoot to First Class, the patrol method, troop organization, and 
advanced scoutcraft.  They eliminated lectures and extended instruction 
putting the emphasis on doing rather than lecturing.  

This may be the "alternative Wood Badge" you heard about.  In any case in 
succeeding courses more emphasis was placed on leadership.  From the 
beginning the course structure was under evaluation.  After the first two 
courses there were quite a few who felt that more emphasis needed to be 
placed on leadership skills to be able to go back and teach other 
Scouters how to better do Scouting.  

By the early sixties, it became apparent that local Councils could put on 
Wood Badge courses and the BSA Volunteer Training Service developed two 
guides - one for the National Courses and one for Council Scoutmaster 
Courses.  The daytime programs of each focused on Scoutcraft.  The 
difference was in evening programs.  The National Course focused on 
Council and District training and the Scoutmaster Course focused on 
running a Troop and the patrol method.

From 1967 to 1972 there was a lot of experimentation with changing the 
focus of the course to leadership development.  During this time Harcourt 
may have developed an alternative course for consideration.  The 
experiments confirmed the value of leadership development and in 1972 
leadership development replaced scoutcraft as the focus of training 
during daytime activities.  

In 1979 another period of evaluation began and there was concern that 
Scoutcraft needed more emphasis.  Several course changes were made to 
include more scoutcraft training areas.  Bill Harcourt may have been 
involved in these changes as well.

Over the years BSA has also experimented with canoeing, rafting, and 
exploring versions of Wood Badge.

Probably the best source of historical information on Wood Badge is BSA's 
A History of Wood Badge in the United States.

Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
DDC-Training, GW Dist. Nat Capital Area Council mfbowman@CAPACCESS.ORG

Date:         Wed, 30 Aug 95 11:09:28 EDT
From: Don Izard <IZARD@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Wood Badge Sign Posts
To: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CAPACCESS.ORG>

Michael,

        The more herons the better!  If, in fact, there is some
        relationship between my fathers spirit, and the spirit
        or scouting and the herons, it just means that he is out
        there continuing his work!  I also did not share the
        'personal' aspect of the heron with my patrol at the
        time, feeling more that the heron, also a feathered friend
        of the owls, was something that was part of OUR OWL patrol
        team spirit etc.  I may share it with them, when the time
        is right.  However, I could not even speak when they
        elected me Permanent OWL Patroll leader, so I could not
        have told them anyway.

        Our priest once told my wife that God reveals his signs
        to you when you NEED to see them.  While I was away for
        Jambo staff in 1993, she noticed that the sun through the
        sky light of our church, makes a large heart shadow on
        the wall behind the cross.  She asked the priest if he
        had noticed it before.  He said that it has always been
        there, and it was just her time to see it.  She did not
        feel so alone after that.

        And yes, you are right, I once again feel ever more certain
        that I am on the right road, "fighting the good fight", and
        went to our troop committee dinner/meeting last night and
        signed up to do EVERYTHING ;)  (well not everyting)

scouter don,
I used to be an Owl, but will always be an Eagle

Date:         Fri, 15 Sep 1995 16:09:29 -0700
From: Jim Carter - HCI Project <hci@CS.USASK.CA>
Subject:      Wood Badge - more beads

In Saskatchewan Canada there is no "Ticket" although I'll be passing on to
theis fall's 3 weekend Part II participants all your interesting
explanations about "working your ticket". We have the following
requirements:

WB Part I (12-15 hrs based on national sylibus) = Gilwell Woggle

WB Part II (approx 60 hrs - NO Ticket) = Woodbadge (scarf + 2 beads)

Trainer I (1-2 weekends) = no visible recognition

Trainer II (2-3 weekends + coordinate a Part I) = 3rd bead

Trainer III (5 days + coordinate a Part II) = 4th bead

Likewise in many years of Scouting in Alberta there was no "ticket" for a
Wood Badge. I believe that both provinces have decided against any delay in
awarding the Woodbadge after all the effort that a person puts into the
course time and its associated assignments (often refered to as STA's and
more often called Stupid Trainer Activities rather than the official jargon
of Spare Time Activities, afterall who has spare time on a Woodbadge
course).

Jim Carter <hci@cs.usask.ca>

Date:         Thu, 14 Sep 1995 00:31:33 GMT
From: Rodger Morris <rodger@FISHNET.NET>
Subject:      Re: Woodbadge ticket - follow up and thank you.

>To: ab514@freenet.carleton.ca
>From: rodger@fishnet.net (Rodger Morris)
>Subject: Re: Woodbadge ticket - follow up and thank you.
>
>Mike Pitre wrote:
>...
>>Thank you for the many replies I received concerning the term "woodbadge
>>ticket".  It turns out I'm currently working my ticket, and I didn't know
>>it!...
>
>When I went through National Leadership Development Woodbadge" at
>Philmont back in July of 1973 the origin of the expression,
>"work my ticket" was explained thusly:
>
>In the Royal Army and in the Honourable East India Company, one was
>shipped to India at no charge to oneself. One had to complete a
>contract of a certain minimum duration in a satisfactory manner in
>order to receive free passage back to Great Britain. Failing that
>one was required to pay one's own passage back to England.
>
>This was known in the slang of that time as "working my ticket."
>
>I trust this may be of some interest to some.
>
>Yours in Scouting,
>
>Rodger
>
Rodger Morris  <rodger@fishnet.net>
Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop 852, Camarillo, CA
Ventura County Council, Boy Scouts of America
National Woodbadge 416-18, Philmont, 1973
"I used to be a Beaver..."

Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 1995 13:11:26 -0500
From: Gary Calvert <c23glc@KOCRSV01.DELCOELECT.COM>
Subject:      Woodbadger's  LONG question?
To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>

Woodbadger's question.

Thanks to all who read and reply to the unusually long post.

I feel it is important and may have benefits for others as well.

I am aware that there will be strong opinions from those who are
Woodbadge trained and those who are not.

With out trying to stir any chords of discontent anywhere, I would
like to ask for some points of view on a situation that I happen to
be in this last summer.

Backgrounds -

My background does not include Woodbadge at this time, but I have
had a fast start, basic indoor and outdoor training sessions, and
I am not a novice at camping and scouting.  My camping skills go
back to 1964, a trip to Region 7 canoe base (years ago), a trip to
Philmont, 50 miler awards, camped in 42 of the lower 48 states and
guided my Son to Eagle at 14 and he is still active in the troop
at 16.

The rest of the leaders background is that the Scout Master and an
one Assistant Scout Master have been trainers for Woodbadge courses.
Two of the other leaders had just been through a Woodbadge course.
The committee member on the trip had recently received her beads.

I really appreciate the other scout leaders. They are very skilled and
seem to enjoy scouting they all invest lots of time an money in the
troop and scouting as a whole. I believe they were doing what they
thought was the best way to develop the troop.

I hope these questions would not cause harm to friendships but I need
to understand more of what has happened and I need to decide if I should
re-evaluate my position on helping the scouts during campouts and since
there has been no discussions to date, I am seeking opinions from
SCOUTS-L folks.

Scenario -

During the summer camp, one goal I was told was to have the troop
work in patrols.  This was to happen with out the intervention
of the leaders. Repeated instructions to the Scouts to work as a
patrol and subsequent failings of the Scouts to do so lead to a few
lectures (I thought they were more along the lines of a chewing out)
and several instances of finger pointing so-n-so isn't doing what
he was told etc.... The background of the Scouts were varied from
several who attended JLT to first time out camping boys.  The
hands off method for me seemed to short change the new boys out of
some of the learning experiences with the leaders as well as not
having some of the leaders show the skills they knew.  (I know it
is suppose to be from older Scouts to younger Scouts, but sometimes
the who's teaching is not as important as getting information
pasted along to younger Scouts to give them the skills to become
a patrol) I didn't butt-in and left the units to flounder and I
feel as though I had failed in helping them learn the skills they
needed to become patrols.

The leaders didn't exactly set a good example for the boys to
follow, during the same meal they would be telling a Scout who was
not part of meal-prep to get out of the cooking area, and a few
minutes later be a participant of horse play in the cooking area.

No wonder the SPL and PL's couldn't get any co-operation from the
patrols.

With young Scouts and boy new to the scouting in patrol methods
they are left to guess what is happen and left with the impression
that the older Scouts are bossy, they tend to "duck out" when the
opportunity presents its self because the expected organization has
not been explained to them.
The older Scouts are left to yelling and playing bully to get some
co-operation from the rest of the patrol or doing the work himself
amidst the yelling and finger pointing.

There was a duty roster made up at the beginning of the stay.

I didn't feel it was my place to interfere with the efforts that were
being made.
A leaders meeting was taking place mid-week and I had asked if they were
going to explain the situation to the troop so they might understand what
is being expected of them, and I only received laughs of insiders to
the uninitiated.  They said it would all "come together soon".  The coming
together never occurred and I was to the point of quitting the troop.

>From the view of the boys the trip may have been more fun than from
my point of view, I haven't discussed it with any of the boys.

My impression of Woodbadge -

Is (was?) that it is to be a training of the Scout Leaders to enable
them to teach and build a Scout Unit that works with patrol methods.

This was to be achieved by being in the position of the Scouts, working
as a patrol, acquiring camping skills, and expanded training of the
adult leaders on the Scouting Organization and Administrative items
needed to run a troop. (a significant increase above basic training)

I would have thought that Woodbadge training would convey the idea of
passing along the skills and methods on how to work as patrols and not
to turn Scout Leaders into Woodbadge trainers.  Is this type of
instruction a written part of the Woodbadge course some where?

If it is available I would like to read it.

I was paid and signed up for a course a few years ago, but had to
cancel at the last minute due to a work related trip out of town.
I never heard squat from anyone. No thanks for the donation.
Only recently an offer to discount a course.  It would have been
nice to have at least read an outline of the course for the $150.

I don't believe that a collage graduate going into the teaching
profession would walk into a high school class and try to teach
the high school students the same way as he was taught in collage,
but rather use those skills and teachings that were attained in
collage to teach at a high school level.  Otherwise, there would be
no need to go to collage since they would have already done it.

Questions -

  * Does the Woodbadge training leave the trained Leaders with the
    goal of setting up Scout Units by simulating the training that
    they themselves just went through by essentially placing the
    Scout Leaders as the Woodbadge trainers and having the Scouts
    meld into cohesive patrol units simply by having been placed
    into the roll of Woodbadger?

  * The impression I have of the Woodbadger's who were trained and
    the Woodbadge trainers on the campout was that the effort was
    to leave the Scouts to struggle at each task as a group and
    through some "miracle" or "awakening" they would after a few
    days become a functioning unit. Is this true?

  * Should I have went ahead and given one on one assistance to the
    boys to get them on there way to working as a patrol? (group
    surroundings)

  * As good as Woodbadge appears to be, don't they teach tolerance and
    sharing skills and information with others?

  * Do other non-Woodbadge Scouter's find themselves in an excluded
    atmosphere, where information is shared only among Woodbadger's?

  * I have been told that some adults taking Woodbadge never become
    a working patrol.  Do these people fail because they lack the
    collective camping, Scouting skills, and foresight to see how a
    patrol system is to work?

  * I can understand the camaraderie between Woodbadger's and a certain
    amount of "insider" activity, but should that include what should
    be shared for the better good of the Boy Scouts?

I didn't feel it was my place to interfere with the efforts that were being made. A leaders meeting 
was taking place mid-week and I had asked if they were
going to explain the situation to the troop so they might understand what
is being expected of them, and I only received laughs of insiders to
the uninitiated.  They said it would all "come together soon".  The coming
together never occurred and I was to the point of quitting the troop.

I decided not to quit the troop, (Scouting volunteers seldom quit serving)
but I need to have some of these questions answered so I can put the
summer camp in prospective.

Thanks again.

Scouting.... continuing with the morals and principals that America is
returning to.

It is the way it is, because, it is what it is.

If you don't like it, go get your own federal charter, don't change the B.S.A.!

Cheers

I used to be..... a lot younger.

Gary Lee Calvert WB9SMX
A.S.M. Troop 568
P.O. Box 6353, Kokomo, Indiana 46904-6353
Work Internet = c23glc@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Home Ph 317-452-1314

Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 1995 17:32:10 -0500
From: Marc Solomon <msolomon@TEK1.TEKNIQ.COM>
Subject:      Re: Woodbadger's  LONG question?

At 01:11 PM 10/9/95 -0500, Gary Calvert wrote:
>Questions -
>
>  * Does the Woodbadge training leave the trained Leaders with the
>    goal of setting up Scout Units by simulating the training that
>    they themselves just went through by essentially placing the
>    Scout Leaders as the Woodbadge trainers and having the Scouts
>    meld into cohesive patrol units simply by having been placed
>    into the roll of Woodbadger?

NO.  The Wood Badge course uses the patrol method to teach Scouters how
patrols SHOULD work.  It also teaches a set of leadership principles that,
if applied appropriately, SHOULD allow Scouters to teach the patrol method
to their Scouts. To expect Scouts to learn the same way as adults is
ridiculous and not the point of Wood Badge.  Wood Badge goes at a hectic
pace due to the short amount of time a Wood Badge course is given to
complete its sylabus.  We would never expect Scouts to have to cover that
amount of information in that amount of time.  Some of the methods used in
Wood Badge are appropriate for teaching Scouts, some are meant to teach
Scouters.

>  * The impression I have of the Woodbadger's who were trained and
>    the Woodbadge trainers on the campout was that the effort was
>    to leave the Scouts to struggle at each task as a group and
>    through some "miracle" or "awakening" they would after a few
>    days become a functioning unit. Is this true?

NO.  While Scouts should be allowed to make mistakes and taught to learn
from there mistakes, Wood Badge teaches that Scouting should be FUN!  A
campout where the Scouts did not have any fun is not a successful campout.
If they spent the whole time struggling, they probably had no fun.  A
successful troop is one where the Scouts are running the program.  To have
that, the boy leaders must be trained on how to run a program and the rest
of the Scouts need to be taught how to work as a group.

Chances are that the group of Scouters you are talking about did struggle at
each task until they had an "awakening".  My Wood Badge patrol understood
most things quickly and were able to gel into a working patrol by the end
(if not the middle) of the first weekend.

>  * Should I have went ahead and given one on one assistance to the
>    boys to get them on there way to working as a patrol? (group
>    surroundings)

YES and NO.  When it comes to organization, other than explaining to the
patrol that they have to work together to accomplish their goals, you should
only be talking to their patrol leader.  To go further with this, in
actuality, you should only be talking with the SPL and have him talk to the
patrol leader in question.  It is his responsibility and you are just their
to assist him.  When it comes to Scouting skills, if it is one that no
Scouts in the Troop are proficient in, then you should teach the skill.  If
any Scout is proficient, you should have the SPL recruit that Scout into
teaching the skill.  It will be a learning lesson then, not only for those
who have to learn it, but for him who has to teach it.

>  * As good as Woodbadge appears to be, don't they teach tolerance and
>    sharing skills and information with others?

Tolerance is something that is hard to teach and I do not recall it be
covered in Wood Badge.  As for sharing skills and information, that is a
primary principle taught in Wood Badge.  If the Scouters you are talking
about missed this in Wood Badge, blame them and not the course!

>  * Do other non-Woodbadge Scouter's find themselves in an excluded
>    atmosphere, where information is shared only among Woodbadger's?

Before I took Wood badge, I do not recall being left out of any information
I needed to know to do my job as a Scouter.  What I have noticed, not only
with Wood Badge, but with other courses as well, is that those who have
graduated from a particular course share a lingo learned from that course.
You may feel left out because they speak the lingo and you don't.

>  * I have been told that some adults taking Woodbadge never become
>    a working patrol.  Do these people fail because they lack the
>    collective camping, Scouting skills, and foresight to see how a
>    patrol system is to work?

There is no passing or failing Wood Badge.  There is only completing your
ticket or not completing your ticket.  All those that attend all the
sessions complete the learning phase of Wood Badge.  After the learning
phase comes the pratical phase where they have to complete their ticket.
The ticket is a list of goals the participant has set and has to complete
within 6 to 24 months from the time the learning phase is completed.

Those that lack the collective camping, Scouting Skills, and foresight to
see how a patrol system is to work can still complete the learning phase of
Wood Badge, but it will not be as enjoyable as if they did have the
collective skills to do such.  I know that my Wood Badge staff tried (and I
feel succeeded) to form patrols with a mix of both experienced and green
Scouters.  This gave each patrol some members with camping and Scouting
skills and the chance to teach each other something.  I learned as much from
the more experienced Scouters as the less experienced Scouters.  Having the
chance to share my knowledge reminded me how to do such with Scouts without
talking down to them!

>  * I can understand the camaraderie between Woodbadger's and a certain
>    amount of "insider" activity, but should that include what should
>    be shared for the better good of the Boy Scouts?

The whole reason for Wood Badge is to train Scouters in how to be good
leaders and to have them practice what they learned, first within the
confines of the Wood badge troop, and, secondly, back with their own units.
The whole reason for the pratical phase of Wood badge (working the ticket)
is to have the participants take what they learned at Wood badge and
practice it with their unit.

>I decided not to quit the troop, (Scouting volunteers seldom quit serving)
>but I need to have some of these questions answered so I can put the
>summer camp in prospective.

It sounds to me like the leaders you have mentioned haven't understood the
lessons of Wood Badge.  Do not blame the course for the shortcomings of some
of its graduates.  That would be like blaming Scouting because some boys who
have been through it grew up to become murderers.

Yours in Scouting,

            +--------------------------+-----------------------+
            | Marc W. Solomon          | Unit Commissioner     |
            | msolomon@tek1.tekniq.com | Sycamore District     |
            | marcsol@aol.com          | Blackhawk Council, IL |
            +--------------------------+-----------------------+
             I use to be a wise old owl . . . Now I am just old

Date:         Mon, 9 Oct 1995 18:51:49 -0400
From: "Lewis P. Orans" <LewisO@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Woodbadger's LONG question? (Long Reply)

In a message dated 95-10-09 14:30:54 EDT, you write:
>Questions -

I thought I would comment on each one in order.  I certainly hope this will
be of use.

>  * Does the Woodbadge training leave the trained Leaders with the
>    goal of setting up Scout Units by simulating the training that
>    they themselves just went through by essentially placing the
>    Scout Leaders as the Woodbadge trainers and having the Scouts
>    meld into cohesive patrol units simply by having been placed
>    into the roll of Woodbadger?

No, no and no.  Wood Badge training should result in Scouters with a deeper
understanding of the purpose of Scouting ("A game with a purpose" as B-P put
it).
They should leave with knowledge of some basic leadership techniques, some
new ideas for program and Scoutcraft, an exciting experience of working
closely with others in a patrol setting,and most of all with a commitment to
use what they have learned to "deliver the promise" of Scouting to youth.
 This said, a Scouter should adhere to the Aims and Methods of Scouting which
include leadership development and the Patrol Method.  Your sad story of camp
shows how far afield we sometimes go.  There should be no simulated Wood
Badge.  Just the opposite for Wood Badge simulates the troop and the patrol
method as a learning technique.  Your allusions to "lectures" and "explaining
the situation to the troop" and adult leaders interfering with patrols during
meal preparation bear out your statement about the leaders not setting a good
example.  It was up to the Patrol Leader to see that meals were prepared. If
the guys in his patrol got in the way, they are the ones to deal with it.  If
the guys were kibbitzing and kidding around AND the meals were getting
prepared -- let 'em be.  That's what it's all about.  Let the boys lead and
they can and will do the job.  Let the Patrol Leaders Council deal with the
problems.  The SM counsels privately with the SPL and the SPL can present the
issues to the PLC. If an individual Patrol Leader or Scout needs counseling,
coach a boy leader to do it first.  Only when this does not work should the
adults get in the picture (but surely they stand outside and look in).

>  * The impression I have of the Woodbadger's who were trained and
>    the Woodbadge trainers on the campout was that the effort was
>    to leave the Scouts to struggle at each task as a group and
>    through some "miracle" or "awakening" they would after a few
>    days become a functioning unit. Is this true?

The "Woodbadgers" should leave their beads at home.  Sure it is a "discovery"
but never forget that Scouting is a GAME with a purpose.  It has to be fun.
 It can be disorganized and even a bit chaotic to let the boys learn.  Coach
and guide the boy leaders, let the SPL and Patrol leaders learn to take the
lead by leading and then reflect with them on what they have learned, setting
objectives to apply this learning.

"Keep it simple, make it fun" is the old guideline.  If the boys are
struggling with every task, what is at issue.  Meals done, camp clean, tents
neat, Scout clean (that's a challenge at any time).  These are the simple
things.  Did your leaders let the boys lead?  If not, then they should try to
get back to basics.

>  * Should I have went ahead and given one on one assistance to the
>    boys to get them on there way to working as a patrol? (group
>    surroundings)

This is a tough one as you need to respect the Scoutmaster's primary position
as the adult leader most responsible for working with the boys.  It seems to
me that you need to take counsel with the SM and walk through the issues.
 Perhaps he has a different perspective.

>  * As good as Woodbadge appears to be, don't they teach tolerance and
>    sharing skills and information with others?

Tolerence and sharing skills are essential to Scouting (and are a basic part
of the Wood Badge experience).  In such skills as Knowing and Using the
Resources of the Group, Understanding the Needs and Characteristics of the
Group and its Members, Effective Teaching, Communicating and Sharing
Leadership Scouters learn to be more effective in just these two attitudes.

>  * Do other non-Woodbadge Scouter's find themselves in an excluded
>    atmosphere, where information is shared only among Woodbadger's?

Sadly, this seems to happen in many places.  This is not Scouting at its
Best.  Wood Badge is the advanced training course for SMs and other troop
leaders (among others).  In the last analysis, marvellous though the
experience may be, it is just that, a training course.  It is not a
brotherhood, that's the Scouting brotherhood, that is the bond of friendship
that makes us a "friend to all and a brother to every Scout"
Behavior that is "exclusive" of others is just not Scouting. (But alas we are
mortal and it happens).

>  * I have been told that some adults taking Woodbadge never become
>    a working patrol.  Do these people fail because they lack the
>    collective camping, Scouting skills, and foresight to see how a
>    patrol system is to work?

In my experience and the experience of most of those I have talked with about
their Wood Badge experiences, almost all patrols come together as working
patrols.  If a course is to be succesful, and a staff is to accomplish its
charge, this joining together is a fundamental measure of success.

>  * I can understand the camaraderie between Woodbadger's and a certain
>    amount of "insider" activity, but should that include what should
>    be shared for the better good of the Boy Scouts?

Camaraderie is great. But it is more important to apply what you have learned
than to tell people what you learned.  Remember we learn best by doing.  So
do it.  The camaraderie of Wood Badge comes from it being a peak experience
for many (or most) participants. Great. Scouting at its Best.  But the value
of Wood Badge is what we put back into helping the boys succeed -- applying
what we have learned, not teaching them the skills of leadership, but by
using the skills to help Scouts learn in an environment of fun.

Wow.  I guess I will mark this as a "long post."  Just one person's thoughts
for wahtever they may be worth.

Yours in Scouting
Lew Orans
Sam Houston Area Council
Houston, Texas

Date:         Tue, 10 Oct 1995 01:46:56 -0400
From: John Pannell <PANNELLJ@DELPHI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Woodbadger's  LONG question?

Gary Lee Calvert asked several questions concerning Wood Badge and
"Woodbadgers" (sic).

As someone who has recently completed the practical portion of a Wood Badge
course I will attempt to answer your questions.  Since it is now past 1am
and I fly to the Windy City in the morning, my responses will be briefer
than they probably should be.

It is made clear at the beginning of Wood Badge, at least in my course, that
we were NOT playing Boy Scout.  Although we were placed into patrols like
boys, this was a forced arrangement when it is encouraged to let Scouts form
their own patrols.  Also we are adults, not children.  Conversely, Scout
leaders should not force the boys into a Wood Badge type experience.

As a result of the skills gained in Wood Badge, it is hoped they will be
trainers and leaders of boys and young men, but they are not Wood Badge
trainers.

There is something to be said for letting the Scouts "struggle" along to an
extent in an effort to let them use their own resources to solve the problem
themselves.  In Wood Badge this is referred to as a "discovery" and as
such is frequently allowed to happen.  Such initiative is what we should be
trying to instill in our Scouts.  However, we should be there to help guide
and counsel the Scouts when such is needed and not let them struggle without
hope or possibility of resolving the issue at hand.

You should help the boys to function as a patrol however do it discretely so
that you are helping them to solve their own problems.  Don't give them the
answers all time, encourage them to learn for themselves as much as
practicable.

Wood Badge definitely teaches tolerance of others and that skills and
knowledge should be shared with others!  However, it does teach that we
should be coaxing these skills from the boys and have other boys (the junior
leaders) instruct, train, and inform as much as possible.

I sometimes have found myself excluded since I was not a member of the
"priestly caste" *g*.  This depends upon the people and is not a consistent
trait amongst Wood Badgers.

Some adults never get their patrol into a fully functional mode.  I know,
mine was sort of like that.  IMO, it would most likely be the result of
personality conflicts than lack of skill in the patrol method and camping.
 The patrols are carefully formed so that each member complements the other
in the various skill areas.  When this happens, it is not fun.

IMO, a lot of the information in Wood Badge should be shared with all who
work with youth.  Anyone can use these skills.  It does not require beads
to properly do your job.  As one of my patrol members said, there are no
secret organizations in the BSA.  This includes Wood Badge as well as the OA!

YiS,
John Pannell
Old North State Council, North Carolina -- soon to be in Chicagoland
Tsoiotsi Tsogalii 70
I used to be a buffalo... (SR-92, working ticket)
...but I will always be an Eagle (1981)
pannellj@delphi.com

Date:         Thu, 12 Oct 1995 14:06:53 -0500
From: Gary Calvert <c23glc@KOCRSV01.DELCOELECT.COM>
Subject:      Thanks Re: Woodbadger's LONG question

Greetings All.

Sorry to post a "generic" thank you, but I can not find a way
to adequately reply to all the individuals who sent replies.

I would like the thank all those kind Woodbadge trained Scouts
and Woodbadge Staff Scouts who sent me E-mail, replied on the Net,
and even the phone call I missed while at a Shrine club meeting:
(another way to help kids)

Many of the replies I received were very well worded with a good
deal of thought put in to them. I got no "off-the-cuff" remarks. :-)

It should be noted that while I couldn't take up lots of space on
the Net with a Huge post with all the answers, I am posting a
summation of what I have had as a response to my questions.
_My_ interpretations of answers.

  * Does the Woodbadge training leave the trained Leaders with the
    goal of setting up Scout Units by simulating the training that
    they themselves just went through by essentially placing the
    Scout Leaders as the Woodbadge trainers and having the Scouts
    meld into cohesive patrol units simply by having been placed
    into the roll of Woodbadger?

 No - Seems that the Woodbadge trained and Woodbadge staff leaders
      who were on this particular summer camp may have gotten in
      a comfortable roll of Woodbadge training and didn't take
      the training and APPLY it, but instead emulated it with
      the troop.

  * The impression I have of the Woodbadger's who were trained and
    the Woodbadge trainers on the campout was that the effort was
    to leave the Scouts to struggle at each task as a group and
    through some "miracle" or "awakening" they would after a few
    days become a functioning unit. Is this true?

 No - This seems to be ONE way of teaching scouts, but if they do
      not have enough knowledge and not "coach" as in Woodbadge this
      particular method my not be successful. So increased involvement
      of the Adult Leaders may be needed to encourage older scouts to
      help the younger scouts.

  * Should I have went ahead and given one on one assistance to the
    boys to get them on there way to working as a patrol? (group
    surroundings)

 No - I concede that the better direction would to have had an older
      scout (perhaps a JLT trained scout) to work with the patrols.
      If there had been no older scouts who could have addressed the
      difficulties, then it may have been appropriate.

  * As good as Woodbadge appears to be, don't they teach tolerance and
    sharing skills and information with others?

 Sort-of-sometimes - The answers varied somewhat on this particular
    question.  Some were that the "Woodbadge experience" was necessary
    to be able to understand. Some were that part of the Woodbadge
    was to sharing skills and information.  Anyhow I guess maybe it is
    a function of the fraternal closeness of the local group. Answers
    seemed to generally discourage the "fraternal secrecy" and to
    encourage openness, but everyone still acknowledges a certain amount
    of fraternal atmosphere around what is shared and varies from local
    group to group.

  * Do other non-Woodbadge Scouter's find themselves in an excluded
    atmosphere, where information is shared only among Woodbadger's?

 Sometimes - similar to the previous answers, depends on the people
    and their fraternal closeness of the local group.

  * I have been told that some adults taking Woodbadge never become
    a working patrol.  Do these people fail because they lack the
    collective camping, Scouting skills, and foresight to see how a
    patrol system is to work?

 Sometimes - again depending on the coaches/counselors during a Woodbadge
    course, a floundering patrol could find it is not successful if the
    coaches/counselors are not effective in their "guided discovery"
    methods of learning.  Seems this is a more affective method for a
    week long course than a multi-weekend course.  The method has a
    certain dependency upon the patrol getting "close" to each other
    and understanding each others potential and short comings for
    patrol activities and some familiarity or "closeness" is lost during
    the week for weekend sessions.

  * I can understand the camaraderie between Woodbadger's and a certain
    amount of "insider" activity, but should that include what should
    be shared for the better good of the Boy Scouts?

 No - was the answer in general, but with the same caveats as the other
    answers.

***

Thanks again to all who posted, emailed, and called.

***

I would encourage who ever keeps the SCOUTS-L files to gather some of
the answers and questions to keep in a file that can be retrieved from
the server. Like, a BSAWB file of some kind. Maybe with some of the good
Woodbadge resources in it. SORRY didn't mean to blaspheme! :-)

I would recommend that as much as possible any useful information be
made to all Scouters.

ANY help to the leaders is a benefit for the scouts they lead and
holding back information (even if just a philosophy of teaching that
needs to be experienced) will put your fellow scouters at an
necessary disadvantage when it comes to helping to work towards a
common goal.

If they don't know the objectives and the desired methods they "ain't
gona be no help" to the scouts or other leaders if their efforts are off
in another direction.

I believe that anyone who will be taking would not be dissuaded because
they got a peek ahead of time at some of the goals, philosophies, and
resources of the Woodbadge courses.

They attend because they wish to experience the Woodbadge course.

They get involved with scouting as genuinely active and interested
Scout Leaders to better themselves in order to do what it is they
joined a leaders to do, help the young scouts.

Scouts Leaders will step up to the Woodbadge courses just as they always
have with that burning desire to pass along what they have learned and
to see the young scouts have fun while learning and experiencing the
outdoor life.

***

Sorry to see there is a controversy over a WWW site that has the Woodbadge
leadership skills publicly available. I don't currently have access to
the WWW sites. Can't wait to get there later on.  ;-)

I still plan on taking a Woodbadge course, but maybe out of council just
to get a different experience than the local folks.

I won't be able to get there till '97, my son has been an active Eagle
for 2 years and I still enjoy participating in campouts with him and the
troop.  After he moves on, I will increase my personal participation in
the troop and council activities.

***

Scouting.... continuing with the morals and principals that America is
returning to.

It is the way it is, because, it is what it is.

If you don't like it, go get your own federal charter, don't change the B.S.A.!

My best wishes to all in Scouting.

I used to be..... a lot younger.             Where was that $.05 coke?

Gary Lee Calvert WB9SMX
A.S.M. Troop 568
P.O. Box 6353, Kokomo, Indiana 46904-6353
Work Internet = c23glc@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Home Ph 317-452-1314

Date: Sat, 28 Oct 1995 22:00:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: K.J.Clay@open.ac.uk
Subject: Gilwell-95 Messages

To My Brothers and Sisters Who Wear the Wood Badge Regalia.

Let me extend my virtual hand across the ocean to shake yours in token of 
thanks for all the service you have and will continue to give to help Scouts 
wherever you are.  You make a difference in the lives of young Scouts.

It is wonderful to know that all around the globe there are dedicated 
people who have stood on Gilwell's fair field, whether at Gilwell Park or 
at a Wood Badge Course in some more distant place.  The bonds of friendship 
that bind us are a reminder that we all have been touched by that 
indefinable Wood Badge spirit - a spirit that will burn in our hearts for 
years to come.

I know that the same Gilwell Spirit led me to help a Scouter in Australia to 
work on a Wood Badge project via the Internet transcending the barriers 
of time and space.  What a wonderful thing it is that we as Scouters 
around the world can use this new information technology to help each 
other to help Scouts wherever they may be. 

Somehow I think that B-P would be proud of us all.  Good Scouting to each 
of you as you keep B-P's dream for a better world alive.

Speaking in the Gilwell Spirit from Alexandria, Virginia, United States
Michael F. Bowman, who used to be a Beaver (NE-CS-41-01), and who is now
Deputy District Commissioner for Training in the George Washington 
District, National Capital Area Council, Boy Scouts of America

Date:         Tue, 31 Oct 1995 11:26:17 -0700
From: Jim Carter - HCI Project <hci@CS.USASK.CA>
Subject:      Re: Wood badge questions

Jiri Danda

>1. Is in your country Wood Badge course for the education of the
>adult leaders of the troops?

In Canada Woodbadge is divided into two basic parts:
      Part I is approx 12 - 15 hrs and is recognized with a Gilwell woggle
      Part II is approx 60 hrs and completes the woodbadge with the beads,
              scarf, & parchment as recognition
      (There is no formal ticket)
Any leader of any section is welcome to earn a woodbadge designed for
leaders of that section ( I have Part I for Beavers 5-7; and Scouts 11-14;
and Part II for Cubs 8-10; Venturers 14-17; Rovers 18-26; and as a Service
Scouter supporting other Scouters)

>2. Where and when is such course held, how many times per year? How
>many people attend it (and pass it succesfully) on average per year?

Courses are held when and where sufficient numbers of participants warrnat
holding one and when sufficient numbers of trainers are avaialble to teach
it.

Part I  usually minimum 5 participants & 2 trainers
Part II usually minimum 5-10 participants & 3 trainers

>3. What's the program there briefly?

There is a nationally published sylibus that describes what concepts and
skills should be taught, that the training team uses as a basis for
developing the course from. Here's the schedule of a Cub Part II that I'm
currently coordinating

Weekend I Oct 20 - 22 in Saskatoon at a school building

Fri. (P.M.)
7:30    Registration
8:00    Course Introductions & Orientation
8:30    Organize Sixes
9:00    Introduce  Six Building Assignment
9:30    Socializing
10:00   Six time for assignment
Sat.
9:00    Flagbreak, Log & Announcements
9:30    Aim & Principles
10:00   Promise & Law
10:30   coffee & a Craft: Rope Ceremony
11:00   Jungle Lore
11:30   Tenderpad Requirements & Ceremony
12:00   Lunch
1:00    Cub Program Elements
1:30    Stars & Badges
2:30    Awards
3:00    coffee & game:Knot Relay
3:30    Games
4:30    Program Planning Introduction
5:00    Planning Meetings
5:30    Planning Events
6:00    Supper
7:00    Traditions
7:30    Spiritual Side of Scouting
8:00    Camp Planning Assignment
8:30    Six time
9:00    Teaching Campfire
Sun
9:00    Flagbreak, Log & Announcements
9:30    Six Building Presentation
10:00   Ceremonies Planning
10:30   coffee & Craft: Whistle
11:00   Invest Leaders, Sixers, Cubs
11:30   Scouts Own
12:00   Lunch
1:00    Outdoors & Camping
2:30    coffee
3:00    Planning the camp weekend

Weekend II Nov 3 - 5 at Camp
Fri. (P.M.)
7:30    Camp Set-up
8:00    Flagbreak, Log & Announcements
8:30    Environmental Appreciation
9:00    Role of Leaders
10:00   Informal campfire
10:30   Tune event plans in Sixes
Sat.
9:00    Flagbreak, Log & Announcements
9:30    Evaluating Program & Leadership
10:30   coffee & craft - Cup Holder
11:00   Discuss plans for Cub Event
11:30   Set-up Event [18e]
12:00   Lunch
1:30    Participant Run Event for real Cubs
4:00    Evaluate Event
4:30    Honors & Awards
5:00    Clean-up for Honors & Awards Banquet
5:30    travel to Honors & Awards Banquet
6:00    Honors & Awards Banquet
11:00   Night Game: Snipe Hunt
Sun
9:00    Flagbreak, Log & Announcements
10:30   coffee & craft: bamboo bazooka
11:00   Group Skills
12:00   Lunch
1:30    Camp Skills/Activities for Participants
3:00    Scouts Own
3:30    Good Hunting

Weekend III Nov 17 - 19 in Saskatoon

Fri. (P.M.)
7:45    Flagbreak, Log & Announcements
8:00    The Other Sections of Scouting
8:30    Values
9:30    Campfire
Sat.
9:00    Flagbreak, Log & Announcements
9:30    Program Planning - Medium Term
10:00   Program Planning - Long Term
10:30   coffee & craft: Scouting Game
11:00    Multi-culturalism
11:30   Scouting in the Community
12:00   Lunch
1:00    Understanding Youth
2:30    Child Abuse
3:00    coffee & game: BP Travels
3:30    Communicating & Relating to Cubs
4:30    Recruiting & Retention
5:00    Administering the Pack
6:00    Supper
7:00    Music
7:30    Developing "Cub"stomized Games & Activities
8:00    Stories & Acting
8:30    Resources
9:00    Formal Campfire
Sun
9:00    Flagbreak, Log & Announcements
9:30    Answering  unanswered Questions
10:30   coffee & craft: Lanyard
11:00   Financing the Pack
11:30   Service Team / District
12:00   Lunch
1:00    Scouting in Saskatchewan
1:30    Personal Growth
2:00    Section wrap-up
2:30    Scouts Own
3:00    Recognition

>4. Does the leader of such course have to have the Gilwell Wood Badge
>course?

Yes. In fact the leader has to have gone beyond the basic woodbadge and
have taken trainer training. One has to be a Level II trainer (3 beads) to
coordiante a Part I (or Level I training courses) and to be a Level III
trainer (4 beads) to coordinate a Part I (or Level II or III training
courses)

>5. Is the sucesfull participant of the course in your country
>allowed to carry the gilwell handkerchief? What is it's color? Can he
>or she carry the wood badges on the leader tie also?

Please see answers to question 1. The neckerchief is internationally the
same and is purchased by a country's headquarters (along with the beads and
woggle) from Gilwell Park in England. The beads can be worn with or without
the neckerchief. There is also a Canadian pin that can be worn out of
uniform that signifies woodbadge completion.

I would be interested in copies of answers that you have received from
other countries.

Yours in Scouting, Jim Carter <hci@cs.usask.ca>

Date:         Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:43:32 -0500
From: Jim Deroba <Deroba@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Addition to Back to Gilwell

Are you folks aware of the Woodbadge tribute verse for Green Bar Bill
Hillcourt-Burnham Patrol (1936)

He used to be a staffer, and a good old staffer too,
But now he's finished staffing, we know what we must do,
His staffing days are over, and he can staff no more,
So we're going to work his ticket if we can.

Back to Gillwell, number ONE;
We're going to work his ticket 'till it's done.

             With the deepest respect for "Green Bar Bill"
              Written by Earl Moyer, SM, NE-IV-64

I thought there might be alot of people who would appreciate this.  I picked
it up at a pre-course meeting this fall at Hawk Mountain Scout Camp in PA.

Yours in Scouting
Jim Deroba

I used to be a Blue Beaver--- NE-IV-67

Date:         Tue, 19 Dec 1995 09:49:50 -0600
From: Charlie Thorpe <charlie2@RO.COM>
Subject:      WB beads legend
 
Hello All -

I was just catching up on messages from the Scouter Echo (Fidonet) and came
across the following entry posted by Robin Clay (12/12/95), who has
previously identified himself as BP's grandson.

 - - - - - - - - - <text of Fidonet message follows> - - - - - - - - -

Hello Jason !

 J>> What exactly is a wood badger?

A Scouter who has gained his Wood Badge.

About a hundred years ago, there was an African chief of awful evilness,
called Prempeh.  He reigned over an area called Ashanti, in what is now
Ghana.  Life there was hard.  The people lived in mud huts; they had no
roads, no electricity, no drains;  their drinking water was carried from
the river in clay pots on the heads of the women.

The Chief wielded the power of life and death over his subjects, and he
abused them very badly.  He used occasionally to have a few of them
slaughtered in order to bathe in human blood.

News of this reign of terror reached Britain, who decided to send an
Expeditionary Force to overthrow him, and this was successfully
accomplished.

The Commander of this Force was a young Army Officer, who subsequently
wrote a book about the incident, which he called "The Downfall of
Prempeh".  As an introduction, he included part of a pamphlet which his
brother had written, for public circulation, to explain to the public
why the Government had decided to spend tax-payers money on this foray
into Africa.

This is an excerpt from that introduction :

[  A Victorian's view of Colonialism  ]

To set up the British idea and British administration over all this new
area is bound to yield handsome returns in commerce and finance ....
It is no mean advantage to our traders to discover in Ashanti a new
market which, if properly organized, should take within a few years
probably from two or three million pounds' worth of British produce each
year.   Moreover, in thus setting up strongly and definitively the
Queen's peace over this great native area, in place of the degrading,
demoralising and pauperising regime hitherto dominant, we shall be
bringing to perhaps four to five millions of natives all the advantages
of peaceful industry and commerce and the high principles of order and
justice and goodwill for all men - which are, after all, the guiding
principles taught by our firm national religion.

        Sir George Baden-Powell
        Policy and Wealth in Ashanti, 1896.

Now, Prempeh was overthrown, and his people set free from tyranny. In
the mud hut which served as his "palace", the Force Commander found
various artefacts, some symbols of power.  There was a special stool - a
throne - and the "blood bath";  and a necklace which Prempeh used to
wear.  This necklace consisted of a large number of identical
hand-carved wooden "beads", and it was one of the Chief's symbols of
authority.  All of these symbols of power were removed by the Force
Commander, to prevent them being used again to subjugate the people, who
were very superstitious.

A dozen years later, when that same Commander started the Boy Scout
movement, he decided to break up this necklace, and use the beads, in
pairs, on a lace, as a symbol for trained Scouters to wear.

Originally, he wore the first one, and, as each Scouter was trained, he
would present the new WoodBadger with his own, experienced, WoodBadge,
and then he would make another, from the original necklace, to wear
himself.  Eventually, the originals were all used up, and new ones had
to be made.

It would be nice to know the whereabouts of the original beads ?  Who
knows ?  Yours might be one of them !  For part of the tradition is that
each badge is passed on.

At least, that's the version I know !

Yours in Scouting
 > Robin
--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: Coming to you from Osmaniye, Southern Turkey (2:2502/18.55)

  - - - - - - - - -  <end of quoted Fidonet message> - - - - - - - - - -

The WB bead "legend" that I am familar with involves beads obtained from
the Zulu chief, Dinizulu.  This version certainly makes the hair stand up
on the back of your neck!

I like the symbolism of passing the "experienced" beads!

I have only seen a few messages from Robin Clay (I have been inactive on
the net during last spring/summer/fall), but I understand that he is a
civil engineer involved in a construction project in Turkey.  I have found
his posts to be very interesting!

y'all come,
            Charlie II

charlie2@ro.com    Huntsville,Al

Date:         Fri, 22 Dec 1995 11:25:32 -0700
From: BILL NELSON <nelsonb@aztec.asu.edu>
Subject:      Re: African Origins?

The BSA traditions come both from Seton's Birchbark Roll of
Woodcraft Indians which based itself on the Native American
traditions and B-P's Scouting for Boys, which was based on the
American Woodcraft Indians, African and other traditions.

B-P had great respect for the Zulu's discipline and physical
prowess.  When he came up with campfire rituals and songs he took
many of them from the Zulu traditions (see Scouting for Boys). In
writing Scouting for Boys, B-P stated that he studied, "...the
principles adopted by the Zulu and other African tribes, which
reflected the ideas of Epictetus, and the methods of the
Spartans, ancient British and Irish for training their
boys..."(Affidavit on the the Origins and Sources of Scouting for
Boys by B-P, 1918).

Some African examples:

The Scout's Chorus (taken from a Zulu chant):  Een-gon-yam-a Gon-
yam-a; In-voo-boo!  Ya-Boh!  Ya-Boh! In-voo-boo! (He is a lion!
Yes! he is better than that; he is a hippopotamus!" (Scouting for
Boys)

The dancing of the young men of the Kikuyu tribe in Africa
provided the inspiration for the Scout's dance (see Scouting for
Boys).

The left handshake is directly taken from the Zulu's sign of
friendship.  A warrior had to put down his shield and leave
himself defenseless to shake with his left hand.

African tribes signaling via drums was mentioned in Scouting for
Boys.

Zulu method of starting a fire with hard and soft wood (Scouting
for Boys).

Reading sign (Scouting for Boys)

Krobo knot tying and bridge building is said to be the basis for
teaching knot tying, bridge building and lashing in the scouting.

In Scouting for Boys, B-P talks about initiation rites in the
Zulu and Yaghan tribes.  The Zulu boys are painted white, from
head to toe, and must live alone in the jungle until the paint
wares off (about 1 month).  The Yaghan boys must spear themselves
in the thigh and smile all the time in spite of the pain.  B-P
goes on to say, "If every boy works hard at Scouting he will, at
the end of it, have some claim to call himself a Scout and a man,
and will find that he will have no difficulty in looking after
himself."

Hope this helps,

Bill

--
Bill Nelson    Webelos Den Leader, Pack 878    Assistant Scoutmaster,
Troop 14, Unit Commissioner, Tempe District, Grand Canyon Council
Phoenix, Arizona USA  mailto:nelsonb@aztec.asu.edu
Member of U.S. Scouting Service Proj., http://www.hiwaay.net/usscouts

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 05:04:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Shameless plug for CSWB NECS-52 in August

On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Kathie Cerveny wrote:  "You also MUST be invited.  
One does not seek CS Woodbadge attendance, one is recommended by their 
district/council training chairmen and district executive."

While I agree that most of the time Scouters are invited by either a 
training chair or by a professional, I'm not sure it would be wrong for a
Scouter to seek CS Wood Badge attendance.  If a Scouter is interested 
in playing a greater role on the District level, but has not become 
widely known because he/she spent most of his/her time with a unit, how 
are the training chair and/or professional supposed to know of this 
interest?  If this Scouter didn't come forward, we would miss a 
potentially valuable personnel resource.  By all means I would encourage 
Scouters with a strong Cubbing background and an interest in becoming a 
trainer to discuss the possibility of becoming Wood Badge trained with 
them.  This will facilitate getting this Scouter placed on the training 
staff and started, allowing the training chair/professional to evaluate 
making such a recommendation.  

If things work out this Scouter who first asked to participate, can then 
be formally invited after his/her potential attendance has been approved 
by the Scout Executive, who has to approve that attendance.

I have had the pleasure of recommending several people for Wood Badge, 
some of whom would have gone unnoticed had they not made their interest 
in attending known.  If we go to far with the idea of "invitation" only 
we run the risk that this training becomes similar to an award conferred 
only when the receipent hasn't asked, which kind of sounds like a 
separate society instead of the training B-P wanted to see widely used to 
assure a great program.  

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:42:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Woodbadge Clipart

John,

Through the kind efforts of Gary Hendra, the Scouts-L Archive of clipart 
has been growing and now includes clipart of each of the Wood Badge 
patrol emblems.  

To get a list of files, send email to LISTSERV@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU with
the following message:
    INDEX SCOUTS-L
To get a particular file, send email to LISTSERV@tcubvm.is.tcu.edu with
the following message:
    GET SCOUTFAQ SILK SCOUTS-L

In this case you will be looking for files like this "P_BEAV.GIF" or 
"P_FOX.GIF"

For anyone on the list that hasn't looked, it would be worth the extra 
e-mail to check out the listing of graphics files now available to you 
right here from Scouts-L.

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date:         Wed, 21 Feb 1996 14:12:54 -0600
From: "Settummanque, the blackeagle (MAJ) Mike Walton"   <blackeagle@HCC-UKY.CAMPUS.MCI.NET>
Subject:      Re: ...I used to be question
To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>

Carol wrote:

>It seems that the Wood Badge course numbering system varies from >region to
region.

The old numbering system was the following:

        National:  NA
        Regional:  NE , SE, EC, NC, SC, W

(for Northeast, Southeast, East Central, North Central, South
Central, and Western, the way the BSA officially numbered the Regions in 1973)

        then special letters for Cub Scouting and Exploring:

        Cub Scouting:  CS
        Exploring:     EX

(Boy Scouting courses had no additional lettering)

Then the Course number (determined by the Region or by the
National Volunteer Training Service:)

        000

Finally, the "sequence number" of each participant as they participated in
the course:

        0

For instance, when I completed Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge in the South
Central Region, the number which appeared on my course
certificate as well as other documents is:

        SC-235-5

>Now that we are in the Western Region we deal with a different >system.
The initial 'W' stands for Western Region, followed by >the area number, or
an 'M' meaning a metropolitan area.

I think, Carol, "M" means "Multi-Area", in the Western Region
as it applies to Wood Badge courses conducted by/for LDS Scouters
coming from several areas within that Region.  Is that right, LDS
Scouters?

WEM-468-94

(Western Region, "Mulit-Area", course number, course year)

WE2-73-91

(Western Region, Area Two, course number, course year)

NE-IV-67

(Northeast Region, Area Four, course number)

NE CS-52

(Northeast Region, Cub Trainers' course number)

SR-174

(Southern Region, course number)

It looks like that each Region has their own numbering system
(strange, isn't it?  VOLUNTEERS must be behind this!! *hehehehee*). It also
looks like the only region that really
cared about the year of the course taken is the Western Region.
Everyone else just goes with the course number.

Any other comments?

(I took some course numbers from prior Wood Badge discussions
here on Scouts-L!)

Settummanque!

Date:         Thu, 22 Feb 1996 09:33:37 -0700
From: George Crowl <WILLIAMM@ZIAVMS.ENMU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: I used to be question
To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>

Carol, Mike, Larry, and others:

This is the ultimate in Wood Badge trivia, but let me add, follow
up and consolidate:

>From the beginning until 1973:

National Scout courses:  Starting with 1 in 1948 and going to
about 430 in about 1973.  Often did not have a letter prefix, but
are often referred to as WB-318 or similar.  See the patrol and
troop flags at the Wood Badge camp at Zastro, Philmont.  These
were Scout trainer courses.  Never saw Mike's NA- prefix, but
someone may use it.  Individuals got a individual sequence
(registration) number (mine was 16623) which apparently went back
to course #1.

National Explorer courses:  Starting with 1 about 1950 and ending
about 35 in the late 50s.  Clearly marked "EWB-33" on flags at
Zastro.  These were Explorer trainer courses.

Regional courses:  Starting in the early 50s, ending by 1972.
The region number, followed by the sequence number, i.e. R9-27
was Region 9's 27th course, R4-14 was Region 4's 14th course.
These were Scoutmaster courses (though others went).

Local council courses:  Starting in the early 50's (see the
History of Wood Badge" book which I do not have at hand, and
ending in 1972, local council courses started with the council
number, followed by a sequence number, i.e. 573-1 for the first
course offered by Yucca Council, or 802-12 for the 12th (and last
under that system) course offered by Transatlantic Council.
These were Scoutmaster courses.  The "History" has the different
ticket questions for Trainer, Explorer, and Scoutmaster courses.

Beginning in 1973:  Leadership Development replaced the earlier
syllabi for Boy Scout Leader courses.

Boy Scout Leader Course numbers were assigned by regions, and
every region did it somewhat differently, as follows:

Northeast Region:  NE-III-33 means NE region, Area III, 33rd
course in that area since 1973.  I believe that is still current.

South Central, South East, East Central:  SC-364 means the 364th
course scheduled in the South Central Region.  I believe it is
the same system for SE and EC.

North Central:  They started out like SC, but before they reached
100 they moved to a system with the first number indicating the
area, i.e. NC-121 was in Area 1, etc.

Western:  Western has been pretty consistent since 1972.  The
current system is as follows:  W = Western Region.  E = Weekend
(weeklong have no symbol).  V = Varsity (a variation of Wood
Badge in Western Region, Scout courses have no symbol).  M =
Metro (that is a division like an area for the largest councils)
OR 5 = Area V.  413 = the council number.  -2- = the second
course given by that council that year.  96 = the year of the
course.  So -- WEV5-413-3-96 would be the third course given by
council 413 in 1996, and would be a Varsity course.  As I once
said, an administrator's dream and a participant's nightmare!

Southern Region:  They are just like SC and SE before them, SR-10
is the 10th course scheduled.

Central Region:  I have only one example of this number, C-11L-
94, which was a weeklong course in 1994.  Therefore, I deduce,
that Central uses a sequence number, L for weeklong, and the
year.

Cub Scouting:  The first (national) Cub trainers' course was 900-
1 in 1976.  The next year the courses were sponsored by the
regions.  Most are identified by the region, CS and number, as in
NE-CS-28 or SC-CS-9.  The first two SC region courses were
numbered CSC-1 and CSC-2.

Personal (or registration) numbers:  Beginning at least in 1973,
the registration number became the course number followed by the
individual number (normally in Wood Badge patrol and alphabetical
order) on the course roster.

I am not aware of any Explorer courses after those in the 50's.
If there are, it would be nice to know specifics.

Walking Wood Badge had their real course numbers, but also called
themselves WWB-1 through WWB-20 for the years it ran.

My authorities for this information are a listing of every course
number represented on the walls at Zastro, a listing with the
course number of every Wood Badger who has passed through
Conquistador Council, a friend who attended WB-3, and Wood Badge
experience in R12, R9, SC, NE, and W regions.  However, like all
things in Scouting, there are many variations and much still to
be learned.

In Scouting,
    __
____'/____  George Crowl
VV  / \ UU  AA, X226
   /318\    Cncl Tng Chmn
  / 402 \   Wood Badge CD
 /|||||| \  Double Eagle
   |        Clovis, NM

Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 22:21:46 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cub Scout Wood Badge Course

Arnie,

The fee for Cub Scout Wood Badge is almost always in the $240-250 range 
in the North East Region.  Yes it is more expensive than Boy Scout Wood 
Badge, but it is a different course with a different purpose; e.g. the 
Cub Scout Wood Badge courses focus on moulding Cub Scout trainers and 
helping them develop critical training skills.  On the other hand many of 
the course methods and experiences are similar to the Boy Scout Wood 
Badge course that focuses on Troop Leadership.  Is there a reason for the 
cost difference?  From what I could see, I could understand it being a 
bit more costly.

As to uniform expenses - this would be the same situation for either 
course.  When you attend you must where a uniform that has only the 
insignia permitted for the course.  There is a reason for this too, but 
you will learn why at the course.

As to Train-the-Trainer, I've been to that as well.  Comparing the two is 
difficult, but the best way I can state it is that it is like comparing a 
correspondence course with a real college.  The difference in your 
experience and what you will learn is extraordinary.  Wood Badge is as 
much an experience as a training course because of the personal 
development and growth that you will have.  My best advice is to approach 
Wood Badge with an open cheerful mind and enjoy every minute of it.  It 
is well worth every penny you will spend.  

I put off Wood Badge for years because I wasn't sure that it was all that 
different from any other training.  My level of skepticism prior to the 
course was such that my wife nearly fainted on hearing that I had decided 
to go.  When I came back from the course, I can tell you that I had been 
touched deeply and personally.  Likewise in working through the ticket 
and with the other Scouters, my growth continued.  I wouldn't trade my 
experience for anything.  

When you come back from Wood Badge, write and tell us how you feel. :-) I 
suspect that you will have much to say.

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 1996 03:04:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cub Scout Wood Badge Expenses

In response to Stephen M. Hoar's message, I offer the following comments:

1.  Each participant in Cub Scout Wood Badge is asked to bring two 
uniforms that only display the Council Should Patch, the World Scouting 
Crest, the BSA Strip and the American Flag.  Wood Badge is about learning 
how to serve Scouting and not displaying patches.  There are reasons that 
are integral to the course as well.  Sometimes it doesn't hurt to keep an 
open mind. :-)

2.  If this was the USMC wearing a particular uniform would not be an issue.
It would simply be done and done properly.  The reason for discussion is 
that we are not the USMC and many have no experience with uniforms other 
than in Scouting.  In Scouting, uniforming is one of the eight methods of 
achieving the three primary aims of Scouting.  So it is natural to chat 
about uniforms.  Now if you are not interested in chatting about 
uniforms, you don't have to.  

3.  Maybe the people who are wrestling with the question haven't missed 
the point at all.  I suspect that there is a pretty common understanding 
that uniforming is a method to achieving an end.  So what's the problem 
with discussing an issue beyond the "point.?"  

4.  The remainder of your comments suggest that you are either angry or 
frustrated or both.  Whatever the reason, there is no need to insult 
everyone in the group or at best use language that is extreme to the 
point of provocation.  If you have a concern with a policy, an 
interpretation, or an opinion, why not cut to the chase and say what your 
opinion is and why you agree/disagree with another opinion?  

5.  Some of our discussion may involve lengthy explanations, involved 
opinions, etc.  And that is only natural.  This is a forum for the 
exchange of views where ideas can be expressed, challenged, tested and 
used or not used.  The fact that many views are expressed does not 
suggest to me that there is a mass movement to tortured reasoning, let 
alone a crusade.

6.  Similarly, the testing of ideas, the sharing of information, and 
discussion of issues is hardly indicative of a desire for some form of 
inquisition. I'm not sure where you are coming from.  BSA has three 
stated aims that are pretty broad - character development, participating 
citizenship, and fitness.  There are a lot of ways of achieving the 
aims.  Likewise, there are a lot of views about what methods are best or 
how to use a particular method.  When these differing views are expressed 
in discussion this is far from an inquisition of the medieval variety.

7.  Like it or not if you are a Scouter, you are part of an organization 
that got its start from Baden-Powell's ideas and writings.  Each Scouting 
Association including BSA has adopted most, but not necessarily all of 
what he started.  Many of us respect his wisdom and find value in things 
that he wrote.  Does that mean we have elevated him to some religious 
stature?  I think not!!  If I quote or paraphrase another person because 
I happen to think that person said something better than I could, because 
I agree with what was said, because of the respect people have for the 
author, or merely because I want to give credit to the author of the 
quote, I am still in the business of trying to communicate an idea 
which is a whole lot different than veneration.  If I quote Rush 
Limbaugh, does that mean I'm elevating him to a minor religious figure? 

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 02:12:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: "Bruce E. Cobern" <bec@PIPELINE.COM>
Subject: Re: Cub Scout Wood Badge Expenses

Bruce,

I can emphathize with you.  I had over 20 years of Scouting under my belt 
before I finally decided to attend Wood Badge.  The impression I had 
gotten from my early days as an ASM of Wood Badge was not positive and 
there were always stories of what sounded to be like nonesense.  And even 
after I signed on, I was upsent to learn I was expected to have a 
stripped down uniform, not only that but two.  Taking all of the patches 
off just wasn't going to happen not after hours of sewing and bloody 
finger-tips.  I called the Cubmaster for the Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge 
course and tried to see what coud be done.  Called the Regional Office 
too. They were patient with me, but firm.  Ultimately I got some 
experienced uniform shirts and packed off.

The experience I had at Wood Badge was tremendous and I would have to 
rate it as one of the best human relations labs as well as training 
course that I've ever attended.  And I'll have to admit that I returned 
much changed in outlook and attitude.  That experience will be something 
I treasure the rest of my life and one that keeps giving.  

Maybe not every course director or staff is perfect.  Some may well get 
hung up on small things and we could do that too.  If we get beyond that, 
Wood Badge has much to offer.  Like much of life, we sometimes put up 
with imperfection to get the best that we can out of what is there. Not 
surprisingly, we sometimes find to our surprise that there is a lot of 
good and that there are some really wonderful folks out there.

Sure there is always room for improvement.  I can understand the 
arguments pro and con on uniforms and concerns about particular staff 
members in some local Council courses.  No it is not perfect. But if you 
wait for perfection, it will be a long wait.  

My advice would be to approach this with an open mind, knowing that dispite 
some of the "nonesense" there is much to be gained and much of value.

Wood Badge as a whole is under constant evaluation and has experienced a 
lot of change over the years.  I suspect that more change is down the 
road.  And where does the change come from - from the evaluations of 
people who have participated.  

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. 
Bowman a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 02:29:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: WOOD BADGE STAFF MEETING OPENING MINUTE

Whit,

Here is one of my favorites:

THE SPIRIT LIVES 
 
The Spirit lives, there is no doubt, 
Within the heart of every Scout, 
The hope lives  on, the dreams survive, 
The Scouting spirit is alive! 
 
In England, many years ago, 
There lived a man who sought to sow 
The seeds of brotherhood of man, 
And there the spirit first began. 
 
The Scouting spirit spread about 
To nations east, west, north and south, 
And soon, on every land and shore, 
Young men were taught the Scouting Law. 
 
We camped and learned of nature's ways, 
We gloried in our youthful days, 
We ventured where all others feared, 
Because we knew we were prepared. 
 
The world has changed as years went by, 
Society's values went awry, 
And many ask, "What is the worth 
of Scouting on this wretched earth?" 
 
But each new Scout who learns our law 
Brings with him hope, and much, much more; 
Each generation of Scouts gives 
The proof that Scouting's spirit lives. 
 
The treasured values of the past 
Still guide Scouts of today; they last 
In spite of changes that we see 
Around us in society. 
 
And still, adventures filled with fun 
Await today's Scouts, every one; 
In them that spirit, born of old 
May yet transform this sorry world. 

And so we say without a doubt, 
That in the heart of every Scout 
The hope lives on, the dreams survive, 
The Scouting spirit is alive! 

G.K. Sammy 
former Scout of 31st Trinidad 
dedicated to the Naparima District Scouts 
who attended the XV World Jamboree, 1983 

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 05:04:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: Shameless plug for CSWB NECS-52 in August

On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Kathie Cerveny wrote:  "You also MUST be invited.  
One does not seek CS Woodbadge attendance, one is recommended by their 
district/council training chairmen and district executive."

While I agree that most of the time Scouters are invited by either a 
training chair or by a professional, I'm not sure it would be wrong for a
Scouter to seek CS Wood Badge attendance.  If a Scouter is interested 
in playing a greater role on the District level, but has not become 
widely known because he/she spent most of his/her time with a unit, how 
are the training chair and/or professional supposed to know of this 
interest?  If this Scouter didn't come forward, we would miss a 
potentially valuable personnel resource.  By all means I would encourage 
Scouters with a strong Cubbing background and an interest in becoming a 
trainer to discuss the possibility of becoming Wood Badge trained with 
them.  This will facilitate getting this Scouter placed on the training 
staff and started, allowing the training chair/professional to evaluate 
making such a recommendation.  

If things work out this Scouter who first asked to participate, can then 
be formally invited after his/her potential attendance has been approved 
by the Scout Executive, who has to approve that attendance.

I have had the pleasure of recommending several people for Wood Badge, 
some of whom would have gone unnoticed had they not made their interest 
in attending known.  If we go to far with the idea of "invitation" only 
we run the risk that this training becomes similar to an award conferred 
only when the receipent hasn't asked, which kind of sounds like a 
separate society instead of the training B-P wanted to see widely used to 
assure a great program.  

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date:         Tue, 26 Mar 1996 15:15:39 -0600
From: Sergio Laurenti <sergio@asora.cci.org.ar>
Subject:      Mafeking/Mafikeng

In respect to the following...

>I have noticed that most who refer to it, spell it Mafeking.  I have
>a district patch from South Africa (you can see it at
><http://wi.net/scouts/main.html>) which spells it Mafikeng.  Is there
>an authoritative source out there?

Michael,
Mafeking was the spelling used by the Colonial powers in South
Africa for this railway junction town. When Bophusthatswana was
declared an "independent" bantu, somewhere around 1979-81(?), the new
authorities decided to return to the original spelling, Mafikeng
(place of stones). It happens often that conquerors tends to adapt
geographical names to their own languages.
Hope this is useful.

                                                      Sergio Laurenti
--------------------------------------------- Buenos Aires, Argentina
E-mail: sergio@asora.cci.org.ar      SERGIO_LAURENTI.parti@ecunet.org

Date:         Sun, 21 Apr 1996 15:58:51 EDT
From: Patrick Lam <PLAM@MUSICM.MCGILL.CA>
Subject:      Re: Back to Gilwell?
 
Hi Mike,

> What are some of the other clever patrol names that patrols have picked
> in Canadian Wood Badging?

Thanks for the congratulations..  Yes, we come up with a lot of
interesting patrol names.  I've heard quite a few...

 - Flying Frogs
 - Outhouse/Polar Bears/Beadbeggers
     (Outhouse patrol yell: The job's not over till the paperwork is
       done)
 - Stinky Fish
 - Pink Panthers
 - Screaming Bats / Snowy Owls / Roadkill

Hmm, I can't think of any others at the moment.  :(

pat

Date:         Wed, 22 May 1996 09:55:46 -0600
From: Gary Rayson <garayson@NMSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Woodbadge at Philmont
To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>

At 07:24 AM 5/22/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Can anyone enlighten me as to the status of Woodbadge courses at
>Philmont?

Good News!  There is a "new" tradition of Woodbadge at Philmont.  There is
now a group of councils in the vicinity of Philmont which have initiated an
annual "tradition" of courses to be held at Zastro camp (which, I have been
told, was the site of the second (?) Woodbadge course here in the US).  I do
not remember all of the councils that are involved in this "consortium" but
I do know that Yucca (El Paso, TX), Concistador (Roswell, NM), Great
Southwest (Albuquerque, NM), and Buffalo Trail (Midland, TX) Councils are
involved.  The "sponsorship" of the course is rotated among the different
councils with the course director from the sponsoring council and the course
director of the previous course becomes the back-up for the next course.  I
understand that Buffalo Trail is sponsoring the course this year.  I think
there are still "spots" available.  Participation is _not_ limited to
scouters from those councils.  Information on registration, I think, is
available from the Philmont Training Center.

>
>I understand that walking Woodbadge was discontinued a while ago.

Yes, I understand that walking Woodbadge became to much of a clique and was
discontinued by the National Office.  I agree with their decision.  There
are enough cliques in the BSA on the local level without feeding one on the
national level.

>I've heard of some connection with Zastrow (a camp at Philmont) and
>Woodbadge.  Anyone know anything about that?

It is my understanding that there is in the initial planning stages some
sort of big "to do" regarding an aniversary (SIC) of Woodbadge at Zastrow
(50 years, maybe??).

YiS

Gary Rayson
Always an Eagle, used to be a Bobwhite/Staffer.
Gary Rayson
Associate Professor of Chemistry
New Mexico State University
Box 30001, Dept.3C
Las Cruces, NM 88003
(505) 646-5839

Date:         Wed, 22 May 1996 11:48:11 -1000
From: Kevin Doyle <kdoyle@HEI.COM>
Subject:      Re: Woodbadge at Philmont
X-To:         "Michael M. Meenehan" <meenehmm@SUN.AITC.REST.TASC.COM>
To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
In-Reply-To:  <9605221208.AA22507@sun.aitc.rest.tasc.com>

The firstPhilmont Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge course was just held by
the Western Region on  May 4-10 of this year. Mark Griffith and the
Philmont Training Center staff were marvelous hosts. There are several
members of this list who attended as participants. Perhaps they will
share their impressions of W-CS-38. Having the tooth of time as the
backdrop for Gilwell field was something special.

YIS

Kevin doyle
W-CS-27 I uster be a bobwhite.....

Date:         Thu, 23 May 1996 09:57:03 -0600
From: George Crowl <WILLIAMM@ZIAVMS.ENMU.EDU>
Subject:      Wood Badge at Philmont
To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
 
Mike, Jack, Steve, Rodger, Gary, Kevin:

Gary is correct about the group of Southwestern councils
sponsoring Scout Wood Badge at Philmont.  I had the privilege of
serving on last year's course.

This year's course is scheduled 17-24 August, and I understand is
a go.  Sponsor is Buffalo Trail Council, 1101 W. Texas Ave.,
Midland, TX 79701.  Phone 915-570-7601.  Fee is about $250.
Normal home council Scout Executive approval is required.  I
believe two other councils are also planning to use Philmont in
1996, call Mark Griffith (505-376-2281) for information.

The group is working on a 1997 course, but it has not been
approved yet.  If so, it will be the only Scout course in 1997.

The first Cub Scout course at Philmont was conducted 4-10 May 96.
It was fully subscribed, so I suspect that they will do it again,
though they have to provide it in a variety of locations so they
may not come back until some years have lapsed.

For those that have not been there, Zastrow (or some spell it
Zastro) is the Wood Badge camp (and used for other things too).
It has Memorabilia from WB-8 and thereafter.  (WB-2 was done at
Cimmaroncito Camp and we have found no memorabilia at Zastro.)  I
have a list of each course that has been conducted at Zastro, and
a friend is working on a list of every person who has attended
Zastro (taken from the patrol and troop flags on the walls of the
lodge).  Zastro's Gilwell Field also has a bronze ax in log
presented by the (British) Scout Association in 1950 after it was
evident that we had adopted Wood Badge and made a go of it.  It
was originally presented to Schiff, and moved to Zastro when
Schiff closed.  We also have a gigantic kudu head with
magnificent horns over the fireplace in the lodge, also
originally at Schiff.

Philmont has been very cooperative in supporting Wood Badge over
the years, and is right now.  While National does not sponsor
Scout courses anymore, Philmont's support is superb.  Staffing
two courses (1977, 1995), and directing one (1978) there were
high points in my Scouting career.

In Scouting,
    __
____'/____  George Crowl
VV  / \ UU  AA, X226
   /318\    Cncl Tng Chmn
  / 402 \   Wood Badge CD
 /W-CS-38\  Double Eagle & Bear
/ ||| ||| \ Clovis, NM
   |

Message-ID:  <2.2.16.19960527091408.282fbae4@fishnet.net>
Date:         Mon, 27 May 1996 09:09:33 -0700
From: Rodger Morris <rodger@FISHNET.NET>
Subject:      Re: JAMBO97 Arena Shows

I have crossposted this because it contains material that may be of
interest to some of the participants in SCOUTS-L.

>Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 08:40:43
>To: jambo97@hoplite.org
>From: Rodger Morris <rodger@fishnet.net>
>Subject: Re: JAMBO97 Arena Shows
>
>At 03:42 AM 5/27/96 GMT, you wrote:
>>
>>> . General feeling about 89 Jamboree and to some extent
>>> 93 was the selection of program and performers by old scouters beyond
the age
>>> of 50 who are so out of touch with today's youth's likes and dislikes that
>>> some of the acts should have been trashed and forgotten. Agree about focus
>>> groups to select type of acts, etc.
>>>
>
>My troop came across a rock group called "Brother" at the Costa Mesa,
>California Scottish Highland games this weekend. The Scouts _really_
>liked them, and so did the adults. This group is from Australia. They
>play the usual instruments and add the Australian aboriginal didgeridoo
>and the Scottish great highland bagpipes to the mix.
>
>This group is unique. They sing and play anything from "Amazing Grace",
>"The Black Bear and "Scotland The Brave", "The Whiffenpoof Song" and
>"The Java Jive" to an adaptation of an ancient Scottish piobrach and
>Scottish jigs and reels, plus their own songs.
>
>From the crowd reactions I have seen, if the BSA wants some major, but
>presently unrecognized talent in their arena show that the Scouts will
>love, they ought to seriously consider bringing in "Brother" to perform.
>
>The boys really went ape over the band's original composition, "Romp and
>Circumstance" (yeah, that's "Romp"), and their adaptation of the Scottish
>bagpipe jig, "The Clumsy Lover". They especially loved the didgeridoo.
>
>To give you an idea of the range of their musical skills, here are the
>instruments they play:
>
>Hamish -            Vocals, bagpipes, whistles, guitars, keyboard, didgeridoo
>Fergus -            Vocals, bagpipes, guitars, mandolin, whistles, keyboard
>Dave Albert Allen - Drums and percussion, warble
>Ross -              Drums and percussion
>Roy Wiegand -       Flugelhorn
>Angus -             Voice, bass guitar, bagpipes
>Brett the Plough Dengate - Voice drums, percussion
>
>I am a piper. "Brother" played some three part harmony with the pipes
>in their performances. Their pipes were well tuned, and their technical
>skills on the pipes were good. I _really like_ how they have integrated
>the pipes into a rock band. I've heard the pipes being played in harmony
>with a military brass band, but this is a radical departure from Scottish
>tradition.
>
>The guitarists will be playing, then will sling their guitars around to
>their backs, in the middle of a number, then pick up the pipes and start
>jamming, then put down the pipes and go back to the guitar.
>
>A bona fide original from the wonderful land of Oz! Highly recommended.
>
>Their lyrics are also excellent. A short example:
>
>"CARRY ME"
>by Hamish and Angus
>
>"Wide as this land,
>Deep as the sea,
>Gentle as a bird on the wing,
>You carry me,
>
>You will find your own way,
>When the day is clear,
>You will find your own way,
>You may find your way back here."
>
>
>Brother has recorded 3 albums:
>
>1) 1994 - "Pipe Dreams" (has logo of bagpipes crossed with guitar)
>2) 1994 - "Exit From Screechville"
>3) 1996 - "Black Stone Tramp"
>
>If anybody is interested in hearing the music of this group:
>
>P.O. Box 3092, North Hollywood, CA  91606-0092  USA
>
>or
>
>P.O. Box 973, Bathurst, NSW 2795, Australia
>
>Hotline: (818) SLY DOGS  [(818) 759-3647]
>
>
>Off the subject:
>
>We stumbled across a darts tournament at the highland games. The
>tournament had a junior division. My Scouts decided to enter it,
>although none of them knew the rules or had any dart throwing skills.
>They all had a good time, and one of them took home the bronze medal
>for third place.
>
>Now, my Scouts are mad for darts. We had an impromptu darts tournament
>at the going away party for my predecessor yesterday.
>
>
>Yours in Scouting,
>
>Rodger
>

Some of you may not be aware that all Scouts and Scouters around the
world are honorary members of Clan MacLaren and may wear the clan crest
and tartan. The clan chieftain, William F. Dubois MacLaren, aka "The Boy"
MacLaren, was a close friend of B-P, and was a commissioner in Scouting
in Great Britain in the early years of the movement.

When he heard that some Scottish Scouts who were descendents of immigrants
were being told that they could not wear the kilt as part of their uniform
because they couldn't trace their ancestry back to a Scottish clan, he said
something to the effect of:

"Rubbish!! Scouting is a brotherhood. They are my brothers and are members
of my clan. They may wear my clan's crest and tartan."

The MacLaren tartan is also found on all Wood Badge neckerchiefs, in part
because of this, and in part because "The Boy" donated Gilwell Park to
the Scout Association of Great Britain to serve as a training center.

I understand that the Scottish Scouts now have a generic Scouting tartan.
There is also a Boy Scouts of America tartan registered with the two
associations that track such things.

There is (or was) at least one BSA Boy Scout troop that is constituted as
a pipe and drum corps. They are the Occoneechee Highlanders, located in the
Raleigh-Durham area of North Carolina. About two years ago, they competed
in the Grandfather Mountain Highland Games and placed 2nd in Grade V pipe
band competition, out of about 30 bands.

They also do a full range of traditional Scouting activities. Does anybody
know if they are still alive and active? If you do, I would like to get
in contact with them.

Finally, the Prince Charlie Junior Band of San Francisco entered the
pipe band competition at the Costa Mesa Highland Games this weekend,
and placed, beating out several adult bands. They have been chartered
as a special interest Explorer post for many years, and this was an
Explorer activity for them.

Yours in Scouting,

Rodger
Rodger Morris                  <rodger@fishnet.net>
Scoutmaster, Troop 852         Woodbadge 416-18
Ventura County Council         Philmont, 1973
Camarillo, California, USA     "I used to be a Beaver..."

Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 02:20:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wood Badge

Lois,

Baden-Powell designed Wood Badge so that Scouters could learn, in as 
practical a way as possible, the skills and methods of Scouting.  It is a 
course that involves a great deal of learning by doing.  Like SMF the 
members of the course are formed into patrols (hence the names you see 
here like "I used to be a Beaver") and these into a troop.  During the 
Boy Scout Wood Badge course the course participants live the patrol 
method in the same way the Scouts should in the home troop. After this 
practical experience the course members will spend six months to two 
years in an application phase using the skills learned in the practical 
experience to help their troops (working a ticket).  All of this 
is to say that Wood Badge is a mountain peak course for learning the 
skills and methods of Scouting.

If you are enthused enought to feel ready now, why not take the plunge 
and go to Wood Badge now?  Some have suggested waiting a bit to get some 
experience before the course, which would allow you to know more about 
your troop and give you a base to learn from.  On the other hand you can 
still learn much in the course and have the advantage of having a Wood 
Badge counselor to work with you for the application period as you learn 
to work with your troop.  There is no "right answer" to your question, 
only a couple of good alternatives.

My advice would be for you to sit down with the Scoutmaster of the Troop 
you are going to work with and learn as much as you can about the Troop 
and where it is headed. Does the SM think it would be best for you to 
attend right away? Are there things that the troop needs help with now? 
Could you help more with the extra training? These and a hundred other 
questions that are going through your mind are the ones to consider in 
making your choice.  

And whether it sooner or later, by all means go to Wood Badge.  It is 
probably one of the best training programs ever offered - so good in fact 
that some corporations have modeled training after it.  And when you go 
you will find that you work harder on this than you could have imagined 
and still have fun, making some great friends too.

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 23:58:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cub Scout Woodbadge

Ken,

Glad to hear that you will be attending Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge in 
August.  The best advice that I received in preparing to attend Cub Scout 
Trainer Wood Badge was to go with an open mind and to be prepared for a 
very meaningful experience.  Don't sweat preparing to make it a 
meaningful experience - it will be.  During the course you will decide 
how to apply your training by engaging in a period of practical 
application. During this period you will engage in a number of activities 
of your own chosing to complete your training.  These activities will be 
a part of your ticket or contract.  You will have some expert help in 
developing your ticket, but it does help to know a bit about your own 
District or Council.   It might help to sit down and talk with the Cub 
Scout Roundtable Commissioner and Cub Scout Training Chair to find out 
how their programs work, what their strenghts are, and what needs help. 
Similarly, you might want to talk to your professional staff about any 
Council strategic plans, training programs, and special needs in the 
training area.  Knowing your own area will help you decide what you can 
do later as trainer to be of the most service to your home area and will 
make your ticket more beneficial to both you and the leaders you will be 
trying to help.  Go with an open mind ready to learn and armed with some 
knowledge about your home District's needs and strengths.

Speaking Only for Myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
a/k/a Professor Beaver (WB), ASTA #2566, OA Vigil Honor '71, Eagle
Scout '67, Serving as Deputy District Commissioner for Training,
G.W.Dist., Nat. Capital Area Council, BSA - mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date:         Wed, 17 Jul 1996 02:36:54 +0100
From: Ian N Ford <ianford@DIRCON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Resource Center at Gilwell Park
To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>

On Tue, 16 Jul 1996, Whitfield C. Smith wrote:

>
> The address for the Resource Centre at Gilwell Park is
>         The Scout Association
>         Gilwell Park
>         Chingford
>         London E4 7QW
>         Telephone 0108-498-5400
>         Fax  0181-498-5407

Thanks Whitfield, you beat me to it ...  however the phone number is

Phone   +44-181-524-5246
Fax     +44-181-529-0994

You can now email them at ... ukgilscout@aol.com

Other UK Scout HQ addresses are :

ukbphscout@aol.com   for Baden-Powell House  ( International department,
                     public relations and of course the hostel)
uklanscout@aol.com   for Scout Shops Limited and Records Dept.
scoutingmag@enterprise net for Scouting magazine

Headquarters has adopted an IT Strategy which is now being implemented,
and which includes the electronic publishing of information sheets,
directories, forms etc. as well as concessionary prices on software,
modems etc. for Scout groups and reduced rate access to AOL services.

Ian Ford
AGSL 25th Greenwich Scout Group, Greater London South
Dist. Committee, Channel District, Transatlantic Council BSA

PS :

> Mike Walton wrote:
> They are available from Gilwell's Scout Shoppe, which I don't have the
> address for.  I'm hoping that Ian Ford, who is a BSA
> as well as British Scouter residing outside of London, will post
> the address or point in the direction to obtain a neckerchief and
> *real woggle*.

I recently discovered that the branch of Scout Shops at Gilwell has been
closed, so it is no longer possible to buy uniforms and equipment at Gilwell.
The Resource Centre was always a different entity, part of Programme and
Training Department.

If ordering Wood Badge insignia don't forget to include your official
number from your certificate.

Ian

From phbrown  Mon Sep 23 20:54:32 1996
Return-Path: phbrown
Received: (from phbrown@localhost) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) id UAA03830; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:54:31 -0400
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 20:54:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Paul H. Brown" <phbrown@CAPaccess.org>
To: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CAPaccess.org>
Subject: passing along a WB reference (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.960923205416.29331E-100000@cap1.capaccess.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status: 

This is cute, and I hadn't seen it before.

Paul H. Brown, WB 82-66
Roundtable Commissioner, George Washington District, NCAC

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 96 9:30:52 EDT
From: Thomas C. Stoddard <tom.stoddard@octopus.pgh.wec.com>
To: SCOUTS-LDS@tagus.com
Subject: passing along a WB reference

Just got back from a Wood Badge weekend course I'm helping to staff (NE-V-123). 
It was the middle weekend. Lots doing. (also lot's of rain and a mid-afternoon
wind gust that knocked down stuff). The weather rock got a work out. 

In the midst of the battle came out the "Weather Rock Orientation Song"

The author is local here, so I don't think it would have gotten very much wide 
distribution, but it's cute and I figured I'd post this morning and share it for 
any interested, knowing there are a slew of wood badge scouters on this list who
might appreciate.....
--
*****************************************************************************
  //\\\                                    *
  |0 0|  "...if there is anything virtuous,*         Tom  Stoddard
 (  o  ) lovely, or of good report, or     *     zctcs@octopus.pgh.wec.com 
  |\_/|  praiseworthy, we seek after these *         (412)374-2107
  \___/  things."                          *  Monroeville, Pennsylvania 15146
*****************************************************************************

      WEATHER ROCK ORIENTATION SONG
             (Tune: Alouette)    
                    
Chorus:
Weather Rock-a, Lovely Weather Rock-a
Weather Rock-a, Hanging Over There

Verse 1:
When the rock is dry and warm
Then you wear your uniform.
Dry and warm, uniform
Ohhh.....
Repeat Chorus 
                   
Verse 2:
When the rock is cool and wet
Then you wear your poncho yet.
Cool and wet, poncho yet. 
Dry and warm, uniform
Ohhh.....
Repeat Chorus 

Verse 3:
When it's moving to and fro
Then you know the winds do blow
To and fro, winds do blow
Cool and wet, poncho yet. 
Dry and warm, uniform
Ohhh.....
Repeat Chorus 

Verse 4:
When the rock is covered white
Frigid toes and ears tonight
Covered white, frigid night
To and fro, winds do blow
Cool and wet, poncho yet. 
Dry and warm, uniform
Ohhh.....
Repeat Chorus

Verse 5:
When its shadow can't be seen
Gloomy clouds will seem so mean 
Can't be seen, gloom so mean
Covered white, frigid night
To and fro, winds do blow
Cool and wet, poncho yet. 
Dry and warm, uniform
Ohhh.....
Repeat Chorus

Verse 6:
If the rock is out of sight 
Fog is thick, flick on your light
Out of sight, flick your light
Can't be seen, gloom so mean
Covered white, frigid night
To and fro, winds do blow
Cool and wet, poncho yet. 
Dry and warm, uniform
Ohhh.....
Repeat Chorus

Verse 7:
When the rock is upside down
Twisters soon will trash the town 
Upside down, trash the town
Out of sight, flick your light
Can't be seen, gloom so mean
Covered white, frigid night
To and fro, winds do blow
Cool and wet, poncho yet. 
Dry and warm, uniform
Ohhh.....
Repeat Chorus to finale

From <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>  Mon Sep 23 12:17:57 1996
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From: Glenn E Schwartzberg <gschwartz@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject:      Re: A Call to Antelopes
To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

At 10:01 AM 9/23/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Just finished my first weekend at WB.  Had a wonderful time.  I am calling to
>other Antelopes to share their history.  Do you remember your cheers, calls,
>replys or anything else that may be of interest to a fawning Antelope?
> Please reply to me directly.  All other animaly, please stay in your part of
>the camp.  Thanks.
>
>Dave Richter
>dwr4x4@aol.com
>T377, Fort Meade, MD
>
Our Yell is
"Antelopes, Antelopes
Swift and proud
best is last
and very LOUD" and then stamp feet quickly

the song that we sang going everywhere was
"Over hill over dale, we will hit the wood badge trail as the Antelopes go
loping along
For it's hi hi he the antelope life for me
Shout out your colors loud and clear - Blue and gold (note I went to Cub
Scout Trainers wood badge)
For its hi hi ho Swiftly we will go
As the Antelope go Loping along

Swift and strong Rash and loud
We will make our den coach proud
as the Antelope go sprinting ahead
for its hi hi he tickets are for me
Shout out our name loud and strong "Antelope"
for its hi hi ho in service we will go
as the antelope go loping along"

We also made antelope hoof cutouts that were placed in numerous places(place
mats for other dens, to hold soap and other stuff the the restrooms etc)

Enjoy your Wood Badge experience
Glenn S.
I used to be an antelope WCS-30-92

From <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>  Tue Oct 15 06:27:33 1996
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Date:         Mon, 14 Oct 1996 11:01:38 -0400
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From: Peter Farnham <pfarnham@CapAccess.org>
Subject:      Done with WB Practical Phase
To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Hi all,

Just a brief announcement:  I'm done with the practicel phase of my Wood
Badge course (WB 82-67).  We had a lot of fun; my ticket is finalized;
the feast was an orgy of well-prepared grilling and DO-prepared food (we
even had French Onion soup, courtesy of the Bears, and Vietnamese spring
rolls courtesy of the Owls).  The Beavers made corn bread, grilled
marinated chicken, and herbed potatoes.  Anyway, it was a great feast,
and we all left inspired to go on and work our tickets for the benefit of
our troop, scouting, and, frankly, the country!  Oh--I was honored to be
elected permanent patrol leader of the Beavers.  I guess they thought
that I was such a good mother hen, I could continue in that capacity
without a whole lot of effort.

A near religious experience occurred on Saturday night, while the Beavers
were out on our overnight.  We walked along a stream and kept seeing
Beaver sign--i.e., gnawed logs, felled trees, etc.  We finally passed the
dam, which had sprung a couple of minor leaks, and after dinner, right
around dusk, we decided to go back down to the creek and see if we could
see our bro' doing his thing.

We got down there right at dusk, and stood quietly by the beaver dam,
listening.  We saw the water ripple a little, and
then--KA-WHAAACCCKKKK!!!  All of us about went into cardiac arrest.  Any
of you who have never heard a beaver slap the water with his tail, lemme
tell you, it is a breath-taking experience in more ways than one.  It
makes a sound about like a cannonball hitting the water.  At first, we
thought someone had thrown something into the water.  But no, it was just
Brother Beaver letting his friends know they had some company.  The
beaver did it again a couple of minutes later, so we moved along up the
stream another 25 yards or so.  We stood quietly listening, and then we
started hearing them gnawing.  Boy, those things are noisy!  You could
hear the gnawing easily from wher we wer, and that was at least 25
yeards.  I bet you could have heard it at least twice that far away.

Anyway, we went back quietly by the beaver dam, and a couple of minutes
later we all turned our flashlights on at once, and sure enough, there he
was, happily chewing away on a stick, obviously eating--he was stripping
the bark.  Amazingly, he didn't take off with our lights on him, but
rqather just sat there calmly eating in the light.  We watched him for
five minutes or so, then decided to let him enjoy his meal in peace, so
we left.

It was very peaceful and fulfilling to see such a sight; none of us had
ever seen a beaver in the wild before, and we all felt especially blessed
to have had the opportunity.

One other anecdote, and then I'm done.  The service patrol shovel had
been banged up pretty good by the time we got it, but it was still
recognizable as a shovel.  Not when we got done with it.  I won't go into
a whole lot of detail, but how many of you have ever turned a scout
shovel into--a beaver lodge?  You do it with lots of sticks and mud.
Anyway, ours was the first effort that didn't get the statement, "But it
still looks like a shovel!"

Those of you on the list who haven't taken BSA Wood Badge are missing a
great experience.  I've learned more about scou8ting, boys, and myself
these past three weekends than in the previous five years I've been
registered as an adult.  Go when you get the chance; you ;won't regret
it.  Scouting and the boys need you!

YiS (I used to be a Beaver),

Pete Farnham
SM, Troop 113
GW District, NCAC
Alexandria, VA

From <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>  Sun Jan 19 19:49:10 1997
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Date:         Sun, 19 Jan 1997 08:48:09 +0000
Reply-To: Ian N Ford <ianford@DIRCON.CO.UK>
Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List <Scouts-L@tcu.edu>
From: Ian N Ford <ianford@DIRCON.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Wood Badge prerequisites
X-To:         Russ Jones <CSRTJ@TTUHSC.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
In-Reply-To:  <2.2.32.19970118061332.0075c020@TTUHSC.EDU>
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Russ,

Your comments about Wood Badge in UK are almost correct - leaders in
units are expected to complete Wood Badge within three years, and Group
Scout Leaders and Commissioners within two. However, in UK the Wood Badge
is the <only> training program - there is no equivalent to SMF / CSLBT or
the various training knots that BSA has.

Also, the British Wood Badge syllabus is geared to the practical details
of the leadership role, and deals with the philosophical and policy
issues, health and safety, program planning, administration etc. which
Leaders need to run a section.

Commissioner WB is about working with adults, charity law, recruitment
and retetion, youth protection, finance and fund-raising etc. as well as
Scouting policies. It consists of 13 modules and there is a possibility
to exempt students from modules on the basis of prior experience.
Commissioners must complete WB within two years of appointment.

YiS

Ian N Ford
AGSL 25 Greenwich, London UK
Trainer, Channel District, Transatlantic Council BSA

From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Fri Jan 17 02:09:56 1997
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 02:09:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List <scouts-l@tcu.edu>
Subject: Family Support for Wood Badge

Evette's postings elicited a lot of positive encouragement to try to work 
out things to go to Wood Badge.  And I confess, I was tempted to write a 
similar message until I talked with a local Scouter here about how things 
were going and remembered a situation at our Wood Badge course.

Despite what some wags may say, most folks that go to Wood Badge really 
get pumped up with a year long adreneline surge.  Most come back to their 
roles as a Cub Scout Trainer or a Scout Leader with renewed conviction, 
excitement and unbridled enthusiasm for the program.  This of course is 
what should happen.  However, all this good stuff means that the Scouter 
is also probably going to need to spend a lot more time with Scouting to 
work the ticket and still give top-level service in his or her position. 
The time demands can go way up on the scale.  

If the Scouter's family is unable to accomodate this burst of 
enthusiastic commitment and accelerated participation, problems that 
already were smouldering in the background can burst into flame.  In 
other words there can be some serious family problems as a result.  

In the Wood Badge course I attended there were two wonderful people there 
whose spouses did not want them to attend the course.  In one case the 
spouse called every day and eventually threatened divorce.  That Scouter 
later ended up writing to ask to break off communications with many of us 
who tried to give support - things had gotten very bad. The other had a 
spouse that couldn't accept the Scouter's independence from home, 
recognition by others and things out of that spouse's control.  When this 
Scouter left the course, communication stopped dead and eventually so did 
participation in Scouting.  

The point I'm laboring to make is that a deep commitment to Scouting like 
that required to attend Wood Badge and later work the ticket, also requires 
the Scouter to have his or her family's support and understanding.  If it 
is absent, attending Wood Badge will not make it better.  It is far 
better for that Scouter to work on the situation at home first and do 
what he or she can in Scouting than to push to hard and go to Wood Badge. 
There will always be more courses each year. We never have a shortage of 
jobs and the need for good people to help.  We should remember that 
Scouting is not at the cost of family, it is about family.  

Thus, my advice to Evette while similar in some ways is a bit different.  
I think the first order of business is to work on the home situation and 
involve the spouse in Scouting when possible developing an understanding 
gradually between the two.  When both are ready, then that's the time to 
go to Wood Badge.

Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
Dep.Dist.Commissioner-Training, G.W.Dist., NCAC, BSA (Virginia)
U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area)
ftp1 or ftp2.scouter.com/usscouts E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org

Date: 	Tue, 18 Mar 1997 23:10:22 -0600
From: Bill Wheeler <wwheeler@BUFFNET.NET>
Subject:      Re: Wood Badge  QM HELP

At 09:34 PM 3/15/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Scouts-L Wood Bager's I need resource help.
>
>I will be serving as the assistant quartermaster for Wood Badge course
>C-3-97 conducted by Indianhead Council, St. Paul, Minnesota.
>
>The course director has asked for additonal resource information on
>suppliers for Wood Badge clothing, ie, t-shirts, placket (golf style)
>shirts, sweatshirts, and windbreakers.
>
>The supplier needs to have worked in suppling this type of merchandise to
>other Wood Badge courses and therefore will have the necessary artwork in
>house.
>

It took me a bit to find the file, but this information was posted a while
ago. Hope it helps.

Bill Wheeler
"... I used to be a Bobwhite"
NE VII-9

***********************************************************
The Unofficial Woodbadge Resource List
for Patches, Mugs, Shirts etc.

Compiled by Kay Trick
(The friendly/unfriendly? Woodbadge Quartermaster)
NE-IV-67

Posted by Jim Deroba Blue Beaver Patrol NE-IV-67
Deroba@AOL.Com

Gimmick Items/Carnival Supplies
 Oriental Trading Company, Inc.
 P. O. Box 3407
 Omaha, NE 68103-0407
 1-800-228-2269

Mugs
 Busy Bee Enterprises
 P.O. Box 432
 Akron, Ohio 44309

 Mugs-N-Stuff
 847 Floyd Avenue
 Chula Vista, Ca 92010
 (619)-421-9157

Arts Supplies-Craft Materials
 S & S
 P.O. Box 513
 Colchester, CT. 06415-0513
 10800-243-9232

 Guildcraft Inc.
 3158 Main Street
 Buffalo, NY 14214
 1-800-345-5563
 Stained Glass
 W. J. Stained Glass
 P.O. Box 96
 Hummels Wharf, PA. 17831
 (717)-743-6561

Misc.  Woodbadge Items
ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL STUFF
 The Cimarron Art Gallery
 Box 15
 Cimarron, New Mexico 87714
 1-800-554-5293

T-Shirts
 T-Shirt Designs of Kentucky Inc.
 819 Phillips Lane
 Louisville, KY 40209
5 02-367-6778

Literature and Pins-Patches-Decals
Canadian Scouting Literature
Great Info!!!!
 The Derita Reporter
 2600 Allen Road South
 Charlotte, NC 28269
 704-596-4770

WoodBadge Pins, Patches, Decals (Neat "Stuff")
 Ken Kettleberger
 6409 Cardinal Lane
 Columbia, MD 21044
 (H) 410-997-0563
( O) 301-805-5443

Canadian Scouting Supplies
 North Waterloo Scout Shop (Canada)
 844 Frederick Street
 Kitchener N2R 2B8
 (519)-742-8542

 Scouts Canada
 Box/ C.P. 5151 Station "F"
 1345 Chemin Baseline Rd.
 Ottowa, Ontario K2C 3G7
 (613) 224-5131

Books, Patches
 Carolina Trader
 P.O. Box 769
 Monroe, NC 28110
 704-289-1604

T-Shirts and WoodBadge Items
 Creative Graphics by Kaye
 Kaye Templeton
 1130 6th Ave
 Suite 198
 San Diego, CA 92101
 Evenings 619-466-7273

Hand-crafted Collectibles
(Pecan Shell Animals)
 Red Mill Mfg. Inc.
 1023 Arbuckle Road
 Summerville, WV 26651
 304-872-5237

Totems and Designs
 Ozark Campfire Co.
 505 Main St. P.O. Box 1127
 Belton, MD 64012
 816-331-7112

 US Postal Commemorative Pins
 Jane Co.
 US Stamp Pins
 Santa Monica, CA 90401

 The March Company
 3815 Academy Parkway North, NE
 Albuquerque, New Mexico 87019-4408

Advertisements Specialties
(Pens, Mugs, Glassware, Jackets, Tote bags, etc.)
 The Eastland Group
 13440 Damar Drive
 Philadelphia, PA 19116-1898
 1-800-231-3440

Patches
 The Patch Place
 P.O. Box 2648
 Chino, CA 91708
 909-947-3023

Wood Burning Equipment
 M.M. / Newman Corporation
 Hot Tools
 24 Tioga Way
 P.O. Box 615
 Marblehead, MA 01945

 Detail Master
 Electronic Burning System
 Leisure Time Products Inc
 River Grove, IL 60171

Camping Equipment
 Campmor
 810 Route 17 North
 P.O. Box 997-G
 Paramus, NJ 07653-0997
 1-800-526-4784

 Wrist Watches
 Image Watches
 9095 Telstar Ave
 El. Monte, CA 91731
 1-800-344-8050

 James E West Logo Watch
 9816 Garden Grove Blvd
 Garden Grove, CA 92644
 1-800-635-2633

 Sunny Side Up
 630 E. Main Street
 Alhambra, CA 91801
 818-576-5554

 Logo Motif Inc.
 2330 W. Third St
 Suite 12
 Los Angles, CA 90057

 Fashion Watches
 1460 Monterey Pass Road
 #C Monterey Park, CA 91754
 213-881-9839

 Moon and Company
 PO Box 3683
 Montebello,  CA 90640

Suncatchers
(handmade WB Patrol Animals!! $12.00)
 Richard Shaw
 19 Bear Gap Road
 RD#2 Box 50
 Shamokin, PA 17872
 717-648-7740

Emblem, Patches, Medals, Walking Can Medallions and More
 The Hermann Werks Inc
 P.O. Box 256 214 E. First St.
 Hermann, Missouri 65041
 314-486-3157

Patches, Trophies
 Crown Trophy
 1 Odell Plaza
 Yonkers, NY 10701
 914-963-0005
 800-227-1557

Walking Canes/Staves
 Whistle Creek
 5050 Quorum Drive #741
 Dallas, TX 75240
 214-239-0220

Patches, Signs and Special Awards
 Benchmark
 811 Lafayette
 t. Louis, MO 63119
 314-961-2610

 Ideal Emblems
 425 Fourwynd Drive
 St. Louis, MO 63141
 314-567-9789

 Thread-Letter Emblem Corp
 1929 East 52nd Street
 Indianapolis, IN
 317-942-1424

Date:         Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:48:47 +0000
From: Kim Hannemann <khannemann@WORLDBANK.ORG>
Subject:      Wood Badge Ticket - Info and Thank-you (Long)

Jim Peterson recently asked Wood Badge participants to describe their ticket
items. I recently completed my ticket, begun in October 1995, and I expect to
receive my beads on June 11 at a troop court of honor. I was going to write a
thank-you to all the Scouts-L contributors who helped. If I can combine this
with a response to Jim, so much the better.

In the course of pursuing my ticket goals I had to make several changes, some
as the result of plans not working as expected and some for external reasons.
Some were major - whole ticket items exchanged for others - and some were minor
implementation changes. I think this is inevitable, and probably was part of
the reason for the ticket exercise in the first place. Here's what I did:

Service to Others through my troop:

* Suggest and assist my troop in developing and carrying out a regular program
of more frequent service projects in the local community.

I set out to establish a committee position to dig up projects for the troop.
But by focusing instead on establishing a good Life-to-Eagle transition
process, the troop has effectively used the program itself to do more projects.
And it's essentially youth-led. I get credit for it (in WB terms) because I
worked hard on the troop's program in general, and because the objective was
met.

* Establish a career-oriented Explorer Post affiliated with our troop to retain
the interest of older scouts and to serve other interested youth in our
community.

This replaced another service item involving work on our council summer camp
facilities because (a) my health has been very poor and (b) the work crew's
schedule consistently conflicted with other obligations. I did, however,
publicize the existence of the crew (Goshen Bears) to others in our troop.

The internet-oriented Post is running but is having problems finding a regular
place to meet where we can do hands-on learning. We are all dressed up with no
place to go. And, we are having some admin problems getting chartered due to
the requirement - not mentioned until after the paperwork was sent in - that
five of our members have to be "primaries" - they are all multiples now. We may
deal with this by treating the Post as a special Venture crew within the troop
until we get it straightened out, but that is a secondary issue.

* Work with the SM and ASM/New Scouts to promote a strong relationship with
potential feeder packs and to ensure the smooth transition of Webelos Scouts
into the troop.

I created a troop brochure for new scouts with key information; I put four
Cubmasters on our mailing list; we invited webelos dens to our meetings; and
with the PLC we put in place a strong spring transition plan to get the new
scouts into action fast. Later we established a web site that serves as an
advertisement. I served as ASM/New Scouts for a few months to get the program
going, then stepped back into my committee role.

Goals for my Troop job:

* With the help of the PLC and the Troop Committee, I will create adn
distribute a Troop handbook for all families.

Instead of a printed handbook, we wound up with a web site, combined with the
brochure.

* Promote the need for and participate in a stovemanship course for Scouts and
Scouters in the troop.

We were preparing to move from dmpout to backpack camping, with a greater use
of propane and white gas equipment. The troop needed more training.

Here is another case where I didn't do the work - except for creating some
"Stovemanship Chit" cards - but I get the credit. Our Philmont and other
venture scouts got the first training, then using their own experience, they
conducted the training, and have done so several times since.

* Assist the troop librarian in creating a complete and accessible resource
center for the troop and patrols.

Instead of an ammunition box of old merit badge books, kept in a locked
cabinet, we now have a two-drawer file where anyone can get all the forms we
use, the merit badge books, Woods Wisdom, games, songs, skits, recipes,
handbooks and other stuff.

Personal growth as a leader:

* Assist the troop scribe in establishing and regularly publishing a troop
newsletter.

I really enjoyed this, as it has given me a chance to get close to the program
by going to the PLC meetings and working with two boys as scribes. It has been
a big help in improving troop communications. After some 17 issues, I will turn
the job over to another Scouter next month.

* Learn and teach camp and backpack cooking skills to scouts and promote
cooking skills in the troop.

There was entirely too much Ramen on our campouts. I set out to teach the
Cooking merit badge, but wound up with Camping instead. I introduced the Golden
Spoon competition.

* Plan and participate in a troop JLT course.

Originally I had an item on teaching Pioneering. I wanted JLT, but I was
committee/MB counselor and the ticket had to be written for my job. But I
switched to ASM and we needed JLT, so I got permission to change the ticket. We
had a great time and I used a lot of WB material, rewritten for boys, in my JLT
course.

I hope the above, lengthy though it is, can be of help to those wondering what
the heck is a "ticket" besides something you get for speeding.

Now for the long list of Thank-yous for Scouts-L contributors who helped me
with my ticket items, or whose Web sites I plagiarized, or whose general
presence and contributions have been a big help. A Beaver-slap to:

Jay Bemis
Mike Bowman
Chuck Bramlet
Mike Derleth
Milt Forsberg
John Gareri
Cliff Golden
Greg Gough
Alan Houser
Mark Michalski
Lew Orans
Stan Pope
Charlie Renn
George Schmit
Nick Skoglund
Marc Solomon
Blayden Thompson
Steve Tobin
Mike Walton
David Willcox

and of course my Wood Badge patrol,

Dave Brown
Mary Lou Gundersen
Rob Heider
Tom Hughes
Marty Predoehl
John Tew

and Tom Seymour, our coach-counselor.

Castor canadensis,

Kim Hannemann
Troop 1140
Springfield, VA
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/2801

Date:         Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:23:58 EST
From: Jonah I Triebwasser <jonaht@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      My Ticket

This is my ticket (which I am working when I can). Note the reference to
Scouts-L as a ticket item!

YiS, Jonah Triebwasser, Assistant Scoutmaster
Troop 128, Rhinebeck, NY, USA
"I used to be an Eagle . . ." NEII-83
mailto:JonahT@Juno.Com
Troop URL - http://www1.mhv.net/~jbrowne/troop128.htm

Service to Others Through My Troop:

*       Assist Scouts with the Smokey Bear Honor Guard and Fire Safety
Presentation at the Dutchess County Fair; disseminate information about
fire safety and the benefits of Scouting to the general public.

                Leadership skills used:
                Communicate idea to the Troop to see who wants to help.
                Represent the Troop to the DEC and Fair staff.
                Set an example by coming to the event in Class A Uniform
and in my conduct with the public.
                Plan the event.
                Control the group by communicating to the Scouts the
expected behavior.

*       Assist Scouts in placing six articles in local newspaper for
positive publicity about scouting to interest other boys in joining
Scouting.

                Leadership skills used:
                Communicate idea to the Troop.
                Represent the Troop to the Press.
                Plan the media campaign.
                Teach the Scouts proper spelling and grammar in writing
news articles. Teach them proper use of a camera.

*       Assist Scouts with an "Adopt a Highway" Project.

                Leadership skills used:
                Communicate idea to the Troop to see who wants to help.
                Represent the Troop to the DOT or local Highway
Department.
                Set an example by coming to the event in Class A Uniform
and in my conduct with the public.
                Plan the event.
                Control the group by communicating to the Scouts the
expected behavior.
                Share Leadership with the Troop SPL and other ASMs in
supervising the road crews.

Goals to Strengthen My Troop:

*       Serve as Counselor for Jewish Religious Awards and at least five
merit badges.
        Leadership skills used:
                Communicate to the Troop my availability as a counselor.
                Plan Scout Sabbath and the Merit Badge Counseling
sessions.
                Control the group by communicating to the Scouts the
expected behavior.
                Counsel the Scouts in Religious instruction and the 5
Merit Badge areas.

*       Get bus driver's license to drive Troop Bus to trips.
                Leadership skills used:
                Communicate to the Troop my availability as a bus driver.
                Plan a maintenance schedule for the bus.
                Control the group by communicating to the Scouts the
expected behavior on the bus.
                Know and use the resources of the Troop by having the
other Troop drivers teach me how to drive the bus.

*       Help organize and lead at least two Troop trips
                Leadership skills used:
                Communicate trip details to the Troop to see who wants to
help.
                Represent the Troop to the place we are going.
                Set an example by coming to event in Class A Uniform and
in my conduct with the public.
                Plan the event.
                Control the group by communicating to the Scouts the
expected behavior.
                Share Leadership with the Troop SPL and other ASMs in
supervising the Scouts

My Personal Goals as a Troop Leader:

*       Exercise by walking 1/2 hour per day, three days per week. Lose
10 pounds by diet.
        Leadership skills used:
                Communicate with my Doctor about my exercise and weight
loss plan.
                Set an example of personal fitness by losing weight and
by exercising.
                Plan my diet and exercise schedule.
                Evaluate how I am doing by weighing myself once a week.

*       Read B-P's books on Scouting to make myself a better ASM.
        Leadership skills used:
                Communicate my need to borrow these books from the ASM
who has a copy.
                Plan the needed time to read these books.
                Know and use the Resources of the Troop by asking to
borrow the books from the Troop member who owns them.
                Evaluate how the books have assisted me to be a better
ASM.

*       Participate in the nightly World Wide Internet Roundtable to
obtain tips for better Scouting and to share my ideas with others.

        Leadership skills used:
                Communicate with the Internet Group my ideas about
Scouting and my needs for information from them.
                Represent the Troop to the Internet Group.
                Set an example by use of appropriate language on the
Internet.
                Plan the times I will sign onto the Internet Group.
                Know and use the resources of the Internet Group by
knowing who has a certain expertise and sending that person the message.
                Be sensitive to the characteristics and needs of the
group by not making the roundtable centered on BSA issues only, thereby
offending overseas Scouters.

Date:         Sun, 20 Apr 1997 08:42:42 -0500
From: Phil Brown <philbr@SWBELL.NET>
Subject:      Re: Wood Badge Ticket

Jim Peterson wrote:
 people post exactly what your ticket consisted of for the rest of us? I
would love to see what some of you extremely creative and energetic
people did to earn your beads. Maybe it will help some of us who are
planning on attending Wood Badge some ideas for our own tickets, and
maybe it will help sway some who are not planning on taking Wood Badge
to consider it. If it isn't a violation of Wood Badge secrecy rules, I'd
love to see some of your tickets, or maybe just the items you feel were
unique or particularly helpful.
>
Jim,

For my ticket I and one of my assistant Scoutmasters that took the same
course are working on the Collonneh Lodge camping guidebook for the Sam
Houston Area Council Troops and Posts. This guide has not been updated
for a very long time and has taken an enormaous amount of time yo
assimilate the information. Be careful about your ticket and the time
that it takes to accomplish the item. You have two years from the end of
the class portion of the course to complete your ticket. While both of
us completed the rest of our ticket we are still working on the guide
and it will be about another month or two before we complete it.
Other itmes included my unit earning the National camping award,
Community service through the troop, troop leadership campouts quarterly
to let the adult leadership and the scout leadership get a better
understanding of what each is looking for in the program( This has been
a lot of help I think), being on district Boy scout Training Staff for
Scoutmaster Fundamentals, service to our council camp at strake, and
completeion of a flat water canoe course.
I would also be interested in seeing posts from other Wodbadgers on
their tickets.

YIS
Phil Brown
I used to be a Fox...

Date:         Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:42:39 EDT
From: Robert S Nix <bnix@JUNO.COM>
Subject:      Re: Woodbadge ticket..

I have no indication that there is anything secret about a Woodbadge
ticket; I have shared mine with several people.  I am a little
embarrassed, looking back,  as to the simplicity of my ticket; and at how
difficult it was for me to complete it.  Please use this information only
to broaden your base knowledge; not to change your bias for or against
the Woodbadge program.

First, please note: the ticket is broken into a number of very specific
topics, and I have no intention of sharing the material for those topics,
or even the general categories.  I believe that is possible for someone
to look at a syllabus and determine that "I know all that" or "I could
never do that".  Woodbadge is the only place where a plethora of topics
are pulled together and taught in a focused manner, in a Scouting way,
and directed so that each topic stays within and follows the BSA
guidelines and bylaws.  There was at least one student, in every session,
who knew the material for that session as well as the instructor; but
none of the students could have taught all the topics.  With the
instruction and the materials we received, most of us who have completed
our tickets could now teach most of the topics and meet a minimal
standard.  That os one quantifiable output from the Woodbadge program.  I
can not (I have attempted to) express the intangibles I received from
that program; the top two of which are the fellowship and the Scouting
self-confidence.

Now; some of my ticket items:
1. I will qualify as a merit badge counselor in cooking.  I will
coordinate my efforts with the Senior Patrol Leader and a Patrol Leader
so that four Scouts complete the requirements for the cooking merit
badge.
2.I will coordinate my efforts with the SM, SPL, and a PL to guide the
PLC through the planning for an entire weekend camping trip.
3.  I will coordinate my efforts with the SM, SPL, and a PL to run a
pioneering event, including three lashing and five knot displays.
4.  I will wear a complete uniform to ten events, at the troop, district,
council, or higher level.
5.I will learn and teach five knots and three lashings, and teach them to
five Scouts.  I will learn these knots well enough to tie them
blindfolded or behind my back.
6.  I will develop my presentation skills, and prepare myself to be a
coach / counselor / instructor in  a SMF of JLT course.  I will
participate if invited.  (Note here that my initial ticket item indicated
that I would BE an instructor; my coach counselor changed this one,
indicating that even if I was ready, I might not be invited.)
7.  A series of skills and goals, which I will not include.

YIS,
Bob Nix  ..ustaBabeaver..   bnix@juno.com

Date:         Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:50:55 -0600
From: Jonathan Dixon <dixonj@ROCOCO.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Wood Badge understanding

Here is my ticket (I've left out the implementing details):

Part One -- Service to Others Through My Troop

1.  Provide information on and encourage troop participation in a
workday at Camp Patiya. (this is a district camp)

2.  Provide information on and encourage troop participation in a
community service project such as working with Community Food Share by
February 1, 1997.

3.  Arrange for and encourage the troop to perform a service project for
Mesa Memorial Baptist Church (our sponsoring organization).

Part Two -- Goals to Strengthen My Troop

1.  Help conduct annual planning session for the troop in Fall 1996.
Evaluate the planning session and prepare information to facilitate
running
the session in future years.  This evaluation should be completed before
Spring 1997 so that it can be used after that time.

2.  Collect information on the important items to be aware of in order
for
Scoutmaster transitions to go smoothly.  This should be finished by July
1997 in case I move at that time.

3.  Will do my best to implement and support a boy-run Patrol Leaders'
Council to perform planning and run troop meetings and outings over this
next school year.

Part Three -- My Personal Growth as a Troop Leader

1.  Write and defend Ph. D. thesis by April 2, 1997.

2.  Learn morse code well enough to get code version of ham license by
Summer 1997.

3.  Get CPR and Red Cross First Responder certification by Summer 1997.

I have done most of these so far, and the rest should be finished within
the next month.  Then I will be able to get my beads.  If anyone has any
comments they would like included on SM transitions, email me and I will
put them in (I plan to try to get that written up next week).

Jon
--
Jon Dixon
dixonj@colorado.edu
http://spot.colorado.edu/~dixonj/

Date:         Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:38:53 -0500
From: Jim Peterson <jpeterson@TZNET.COM>
Subject:      Wood Badge understanding

Hello to all who sit around the virtual campfire.

    Stan raised an interesting point in his recent post about Wood Badge
"destroying" the Troop. There seems to be a lot of mystery surrounding Wood
Badge and I understand that some of that is intentional. My question is: to
help further the understanding of what Wood Badge, particularly the "Ticket"
is all about, could some of you "Used to be a ..." people post exactly what
your ticket consisted of for the rest of us? I would love to see what some
of you extremely creative and energetic people did to earn your beads. Maybe
it will help some of us who are planning on attending Wood Badge some ideas
for our own tickets, and maybe it will help sway some who are not planning
on taking Wood Badge to consider it. If it isn't a violation of Wood Badge
secrecy rules, I'd love to see some of your tickets, or maybe just the items
you feel were unique or particularly helpful.

YiS,
________________________________________________________________________________

                       Jim Peterson
     Advancement Chair, Boy Scout Troop 379, Blenker, Wisconsin
jpeterson@tznet.com

**********Citizenship*************Fitness*************Character***********

Date:         Mon, 21 Apr 1997 07:57:43 -0500
From: John Holladay <JNH@MSG.TI.COM>
Subject:      Wood Badge understanding

Jim Peterson, asked about Wood Badge tickets.  I am willing to share
mine from years ago.  Note, it was worked over many many time by my
Patrol Councilor (PC) and I before the end of the training and then two
minor re works in the six months it took me to finish.  All items that
involved others (the troop & district) were approved by those parties
(SM & District camping chairman before I even gave it to my PC).

Note that all WB courses and requirements can be a little different
(different interpretations).  This is by far not a perfect ticket but it
help my troop a great deal and helped broaden me as a Scouter (I needed
it).

John "Doc" Holladay
ASM T1000, Plano, Tex
usta be a Buffalo

WOOD BADGE 47
TICKET

SERVICE TO OTHERS
1.      Plan and set up a troop =93merit badge of the month=94 program that
covers 6 months.        Sep =9195
=09
        By using a survey, identify the needs of the Scouts for both
advancement and         interest items.

        Identify and =93mobilize=94 the adult resources within the troop.

        Utilize my communications skills to advertise the program and motivate
the         scouts.

        By using my planning skills I will schedule and set up an effective
program.

2.      Serve on the district camping committee for six months and plan the
fall         camporee.  Sep =9195

        By using my communication skills I can motivate troops within the
district to         attend.

        By being an active member I will be representing my troop and scouts in
general.

3.      Set up and run the compass course at  the district=92s Apr camporee.
Apr =9195

        By using my effective teaching skills I will set up a course which
will         encourage the learning of this skill and an interest.

        During the exercise I will evaluate the strengths of the district=92s
scouts in         this  skill to help the camping committee determine if
this area needs         strengthening.

        By being an active participant in the camporee I will be representing
my troop.

GOALS TO STRENGTHEN MY TROOP
4.      Build a cadre of boy instructors within my troop who can teach
Pioneering MB by         having at least four boys in the troop who have
Pioneering MB and the experience         in teaching some requirements.
Jun =9195

        By controlling the group I will make sure the objectives of the MB
requirements         are met.

        By having =93boy=94 instructors I will bring about a sharing of leadersh
=
ip.

        By providing on going evaluation by remaining the MB sign off
authority, I can         monitor the quality of the     instruction.

        By using my counseling skills I will explain and demonstrate how to
instruct.

5.      Instruct the PLC in the necessary skills to build a pioneering
project for the         scout show.     May =9195

        By using effective teaching skills I will cover the areas of planning,
knowing         the resources, and execution.

        By allowing the boys to plan and run the project I will bring about a
sharing of         leadership.

        By controlling the group I will make sure the project is carried out in
a safe         manner.

6.      Plan the troop=92s JLT to bring about boy participation in the
instruction.            Aug =9195

        By using my counseling skills I will encourage the boys to take
more         responsibility in the troop.

        By understanding the needs of the boy leaders I can provide better
support to         the troop=92s JLT activity.

        By using my planning skills I will make sure the program covers the
topics         required for the new PLC.

 My personal growth as a troop leader
7.      Build a display quality =93knot board=94 including 3 splices and about
15-20 knots.          The purpose is to display in the troop meeting
room so the boys (and adults) can         see what the knots look like.=20
This will allow me to learn some new knots and         provide a
teaching aid for the troop.     Sep =9195

        By providing this teaching aid I will be setting the example of what a
teaching         aid can look like.

        By using my teaching skills I will provide a device to encourage a
greater         interest in knots.

8.      Complete a red cross first aid course.  Jul =9195

        By attending the class I will be setting the example for other Scouters
in the         troop to improve their skills in this area.

        By completing this course I will add a First Aid MB councilor resource
to the         troop.

9.      Relearn the basic constellations and planets by sight.  Aug =9195

        By doing this, as the boys participate in Astronomy MB, I will be
setting the         example that learning never stops.

        By accomplishing this I will add a resource to the troop by being able
to assist         in this type of instruction.

SUMMARY

Skill   Ticket #
Resources       1, 8, 9
Communication   1, 2
Char & needs    1, 6
Plan    1, 6
Control the group       4, 5
Effective teaching      3, 5, 7
Representing the group  2, 3
Evaluation      3, 4
Share leadership        4, 5
Counseling      4, 6
Set the example 7, 8, 9

This ticket is the road map I will follow as I apply the skills of
leadership gained at Wood Badge to strength my troop.  I understand that
I only earn the Wood Badge Training Award by accomplishing the above
ticket items.

_____________________
Date:         Mon, 21 Apr 1997 06:39:54 -0400
From: Charles Batteau <B3ZAATN@CPSLSOPS.BELL-ATL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Why is WoodBadge "destroying" our troop?

     Stan Rudnick wrote ...
     > My understand is that for Woodbadge one undertakes a project...
     > along the lines of an Eagle Project, and his seems to be that "all
     > Scouts in the troop will be 1st Class by next June"....
     > any ideas/suggestions ... to solve what I perceive as a problem?

     Stan -

     At the close of Woodbadge training we develop a "ticket" which has
     several individual goals to accomplish. Some of these DO have to do
     with troop development. However, each item on the ticket should be
     accomplishable without depending too much on the vagaries of
     individual scouts or committee members. If your SM REALLY does have a
     ticket item that reads "every Scout reach 1st Class by June", he has
     set an unrealistic goal. His Woodbadge Patrol Adviser should never
     have allowed him to set such a goal.

     Suggestions: First, at the next committee meeting, ask the SM to share
     his ticket with the committee. Since he will likely need the
     committee's help in completing one or more items, it's not an
     unreasonable request. You want to help him succeed, in the troop AND
     in Woodbadge (which, yes, comes right back to the troop).

     Once all the cards are on the table, the committee should begin
     working to help the SM accomplish those goals. If a goal is
     unreasonable, the SM **CAN** go to his ticket advisor and request to
     have the problem item adjusted. (For example, rather than "Every Scout
     reach 1st Class by June", maybe it should read "50% of Scouts advance
     by June" -- IF THAT IS AN AREA THE TROOP HAS HAD PROBLEM WITH.)

     The SM probably should share appropriate portions of his ticket with
     the PLC, because he will likely need their help in completing portions
     of his ticket.

     (There is one section of the Woodbadge ticket which contains personal
     goals. These are not necessarily directly related to Scouting, and
     these you likely won't be able to help him directly with, except
     perhaps to make sure he has the resources to accomplish them.)

     Please DO act quickly on this problem, and avoid at all costs "finger
     pointing."  (The SM should do the same! Blaming the PLs for failing to
     advance all their members is hardly good adult leadership. He should
     rather work with the PLs to see how HE can help THEM to get their boys
     advancing -- but realizing that, as you said, NOT ALL BOYS are going
     to WANT to advance that fast. Whenever you have a goal of "100%,"
     you're depending on everybody buying into YOUR agenda, and even the
     world's best salesman will tell you that it can't always be done!)

     Get the SM to work with his ticket advisor pronto. If boys start
     staying away because of an unrealistic ticket item, the whole troop
     will be the loser (and the SM STILL won't complete his ticket). OTOH,
     if your SM completes a realistic ticket, the troop will be in much
     better shape than when he began Woodbadge.

     YiS
     Chuck Batteau -- SM, Troop 751, Glen Allen VA USA
     -------------------------------------------------
     CHARLES.R.BATTEAU@BELL-ATL.COM
     I used to be an Eagle ...
     maybe they meant an hour a DAY! :-)

Date:         Tue, 13 May 1997 22:44:58 -0400
From: Peter Farnham <pfarnham@CAPACCESS.ORG>
Subject:      forwarding - wild. first aid note (fwd)

Hi all,

Since the issue of  wilderness first aid courses has come up, I thought I'd
post some info about one I took on May 3-4.  The course is called "Basic
Wilderness First Aid."  It is 16 hours long (two full days from 8 - 5, with
an hour for lunch).  It costs $125.  One receives the excellent instruction,
a 2-year certification, a bandana with the basic steps for dealing with a
wilderness casualty printed on it, and a thick paperback book called
Medicine in the Back Country.  The course is put on by an outfit called
Stonehearth Outdoor Learning Opportunities (SOLO), out of Conway, NH.
Trainers from SOLO will come to your district to teach the course if you can
provide a certain minimum of students (I think it's 15 or so).  SOLO also
offers a 10-day "Wilderness First Responder" course, and a 30-day
"Wilderness EMT" course, as well as a variety of other courses in outdoor
leadership, treks to places like Nepal, etc.

The course concentrates on patient assessment and diagnosis, accurate
record-keeping, splinting, wound care, and how to protect the patient from
the environment.  I learned how to make a traction splint (used for a broken
femur); how to relocate a dislocated shoulder; how to prepare a SOAP note;
and a few other skills I didn't already have.  The course does not teach
CPR.  The course is not all classroom; it sets up different scenarios
involving casualties with injuries which you have to diagnose and treat
(sometimes the "patients" are conscious; other times not).

One of the great things about the course was the emphasis on improvisation
in splinting.  You learn to make splints with what you have available, such
as tent poles, walking sticks, ice axes, etc, and to use clothes and other
cloth items for padding.  The course also acquaints you with the differences
between caring for a casualty in the backcountry (defined as 1 mile from the
trailhead, or 1 hour from an emergency room) and a casualty only a phonecall
away from an ambulance.  Of course, the environment is a huge worry--for
example, the ground is pretty much a constant 55 degrees year round, so a
casualty on the ground without protection begins to lose body heat very
quickly.  Getting them on a pad is the first thing you do after the
immediate life threats are dealt with.

All in all, I found this to be an excellent course.  I can provide info on
how to contact SOLO if any of you are interested.  This course is highly
recommended by our district's Venture scout hierarchy.

A related question for the group-- a scout going into anaphylectic shock as
the result of a bee sting is a constantly recurring nightmare for me.  I
wonder if any SMs out there have been able to obtain ANA kits to keep in
their troop first aid kits against such a frightening possibility?  Since
these are prescription items, I'm wondering how I could obtain one. Has any
unit leader out there been able to get one legally, and how did you do it?