From <@tcuavm.is.tcu.edu:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Thu Nov 20 13:42:42 1997 Return-Path: <@tcuavm.is.tcu.edu:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Received: from tcuavm.is.tcu.edu (TCUAVM.IS.TCU.EDU [138.237.128.148]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA27572; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 13:42:42 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by tcuavm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2000; Thu, 20 Nov 97 10:47:13 CDT Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2345; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:28:27 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 1716 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:00:43 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1712; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:19:40 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Thu, 20 Nov 97 08:19:22 CDT Received: from arl-img-9.compuserve.com (arl-img-9.compuserve.com) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01IQ85BVOL5C000JTA@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU> for SCOUTS-L@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:18:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by arl-img-9.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.9) id JAA18698 for SCOUTS-L@TCU.EDU; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:18:47 -0500 (EST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <199711200918_MC2-28E7-A819@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 09:17:53 -0500 Reply-To: Joseph Alessi Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: Joseph Alessi Subject: Re: Overturned Board of Review??? X-To: Scouts-L Mail List To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: Mike Kemp asked: >> Is it =3D possible for a member of the Board of Review to change his vote = after =3D he has voted to approve the Scout, shook his hand, and signed his =3D paperwork? << Mike: As a district advancement chair, I would advise you, as SM, to take = a step back. You did not participate on the BOR, and have only = hearsay knowledge of what exactly happened. You should turn this = over to your troop advancement chair and/or troop committee chair = for handling. You have thrown out a lot of circumstantial evidence, which doesn't = really address the question. Was the vote, in fact, unanimous as = required by the regulations. Could the district representative = have voted no, but your unit members decided to ignore the = regulations and decided that majority rules? Did all members of the = BOR sign the advancement report? Did your unit advancement chair record the results of the vote, by individual? It's the council advancement committee's job to take these kinds of actio= ns - it is counterproductive to say that it is a "wrongful" action. Reme= mber - the council advancement committee is made up of district advancmee= nt people, and aren't a bunch of stuffed shirts miles away from the real = action. I would not have one meeting with everyone attending - that is the = road towards confrontation, and not resolution. As a district = advancement chair I certainly would not allow you as SM to "run" the = meeting. If you insisted on trying to follow this course, I simply would= not attend, and would so advise all of the council advancement committee. The council advancement committee should interview each member of = the Board to determine exactly what happened. If in fact it was not = a unanimous vote, the Board is invalid, and the scout does not = advance at that time. Of course, the Board then needs to provide = the scout with the reason(s) for not recommending, and outlining = what needs to be done to correct the problem. If it was unanimous, the Board stands. If this does come to pass, the scout has appeal rights. Rather than = saying "but he shook my hand, it should be official", a better approach would be to prove that he did, in fact, meet the requirements. The scout should be able to document how he does live the oath and law in his daily life. Hopefully, his references will back this up. If you feel that the district advancement chair is "biased", request that a Board be held with the Council advancement chair. If your scout can't convince an independant person, then you have bigger problems. Rather than lashing out at the council advancement committee, which = after all is only doing it's job, try working with them. DON'T TAKE = THIS INVESTIGATION PERSONALLY. IT IS NO REFLECTION ON YOU OR THE = JOB YOU ARE DOING IN YOUR TROOP (shouting intentional). This situation is the reason that I favor district-level Eagle = BOR's. The members of the Eagle Board in my district know the = regulations and don't make these kinds of mistakes, but that's = another subject. YIS Joseph A. Alessi in Ozwin 2.14 JosephAlessi@Compuserve.com District Advancement Chair, Lafayette District ASM Troop 313 Advisor to the Treasurer, Unami Lodge I used to be an Owl From owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Wed Nov 19 11:24:19 1997 Return-Path: owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU (outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.84]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id LAA25445; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:24:19 -0500 Received: from lightpost by outbound.Princeton.EDU with SMTP id <545739-14972>; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:12:22 -0500 Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU (pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU (8.8.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA24428; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:11:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3984; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:08:42 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4858; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:09:37 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 2502 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:08:34 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2501; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 20:55:42 -0500 Received: from apollo.vicon.net by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 18 Nov 97 20:55:40 CDT Received: from [208.223.81.21] (sca12.internetmls.net [208.223.81.21]) by apollo.vicon.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA28017 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 1997 22:00:16 -0500 (EST) x-sender: kempm@mail.vicon.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <199711190300.WAA28017@apollo.vicon.net> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 21:56:08 -0400 Reply-To: "kempm@.vicon.net" Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: "kempm@.vicon.net" Subject: Overturned Board of Review??? To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: I=B9m looking for some guidance on a sticky problem and would = appreciate all the help I can get. Eight weeks after I sent an approved Eagle Scout Rank Application to = council, I received a copy of a letter from the Council Advancement = Committee Chairman stating that =B3It has been brought to the = attention of the (Council) Advancement Committee that the vote of = your Eagle Board of Review was not unanimous in favor of recommending = you for the rank of Eagle. Admitting that there may have been some = confusion about this decision, the Advancement Committee discussed = the situation at the meeting ... and agreed to support the decision = made by the Board of Review.=B2 The letter went on to state the = =B3major area of deficiency appears to be in the requirement of = demonstrating Scout Spirit during the time you have been a Life = Scout.=B2 At the Scout=B9s Board of Review, all members of the Board including = the District Advancement Chairman shook his hand and congratulated = him for passing his Board. To make a long story short, this Scout = transferred to my Troop after his former Scoutmaster told him that he = would never make Eagle in her Troop. She also told me this and = further stated that he might make it in my Troop. It seems as if she = has gotten involved and is trying to have this Scout=B9s Eagle = rejected at the council level after the fact. This Scout has been = been active in his new Troop for over six months and has met his = requirements for Eagle. According the the BSA Advancement Policies and Procedures book, the = set of circumstances for an appeal is very specific and does not = cover reversal of an approved Board of Review. Are there any = circumstances where the Council Advancement Committee is authorized = to override a properly convened Unit Board of Review in which the = District Advancement Chairman participated and the Scout is = recommended for advancement to the Rank of Eagle Scout? Is it = possible for a member of the Board of Review to change his vote after = he has voted to approve the Scout, shook his hand, and signed his = paperwork? All this seems highly irregular to me and I can find = nothing in the book to authorize such actions. I have a meeting set up for this coming Sunday with the Council = Advancement Committee, members of the Board of Review, the Scout, and = his parents to discuss this matter. Any suggestions that you have = will be appreciated. In addition, if we are not able to resolve this with the Council = Advancement Committee, how do we get someone from regional or = national involved in this matter to insure that proper BSA policies = and procedures are followed. My committee and I feel very strongly = that an appeal only serves to validate the actions of the wrongful = Council Advancement Committee. YIS, Mike Kemp, kempm@vicon.net Was an EAGLE (NE-V-119) - Always an EAGLE (Class of 63) Proud father of an EAGLE (Class of 97) SM, Jamboree Troop 231 SM, Troop 25, Huntingdon, PA Roundtable Commissioner, Oneida District, Juniata Valley Council # 497 Vigil member, Monaken Lodge 103 Plus a couple of other things that I only remember when I forget to = do something and get reminded!