From owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Mon Nov 24 14:27:41 1997 Return-Path: owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU [138.237.128.3]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id OAA09215; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 14:27:41 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (MAILER@TCUBVM) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01IQE0WX52SG000WZJ@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU>; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:17:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1546; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:15:35 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 1539 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:14:37 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 1538; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:14:36 -0500 Received: from spot.Colorado.EDU by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:14:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: from localhost (amick@localhost) by spot.Colorado.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.4/CNS-4.1p) with SMTP id MAA14299; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:13:28 -0700 (MST) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:13:28 -0700 From: Amick Robert Subject: Re: Eagle BOR Appearance In-reply-to: <199711241812.MAA29696@mailhub.cns.ksu.edu> Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Reply-to: Amick Robert Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: Linda Heinz Status: RO X-Status: Linda, et al Certainly it is appropriate to expect that a Scout will show up for an Eagle Board of review with appropriate uniforming. However, it is incumbent upon the Scoutmaster/Advancement Chair/et al, to ensure that such expectations are made known to the Scout *prior* to the event. Many times "assumptions" are made that such information is "always" passed on to Eagle candidates, and as we all know, it doesn't always happen. Those who counsel Eagle Scout candidates have an obligation to ensure that the candidate is prepared for the board, in terms of appropriate handling of paperwork and forms, and with some idea of what is expected from the candidate by the board; and conversely, what the candidate can reasonably expect of the board. If it comes to the point of the Scout showing up somewhat unkempt, and he has not been informed of the expectation, surely the board would have the courtesy to overlook that issue, and concentrate on the real importance of his being there, which is to examine his qualifications and merit to be an Eagle Scout. Outward appearances are important, but not nearly so important as the more intangibles of character, honor, and principles which have brought him that far along the Scouting trail. Corrections can be made privately with the Scoutmaster after the event to avoid a similar future occurrence. Humiliating and embarrasing an Eagle Scout candidate over trivialities such as an unpressed uniform shirt, by sending him home, would seem to be unconscionable; Moreover, such actions may result in irreparable damage to what should be a memorable and positive experience to be savored both by the Scout and by the Board conducting the review. It is highly likely that any possibilty of such an occurrence can be avoided by simply ensuring that the candidate is informed well in advance of his board, both verbally an in writing, that he is expected to appear in clean, pressed and appropriately configured uniform, with sash. If there is some reason that this cannot occur, then the Scoutmaster should so inform the board and allowances should be made. Bob Amick, Explorer Advisor, High Adventure Explorer Post 72, Boulder, CO Longs Peak Council Exploring Training Chair On Mon, 24 Nov 1997, Linda Heinz wrote: > A question has been asked of our District Committee: What should happen if > a Scout shows up for his Eagle Board of Review and his uniform does not meet > the expectations of the Review Board -- such as baggy pants, no merit badge > sash, wrinkles in the shirt or some other problem. Can he be asked to > return with his shirt ironed, etc.? From owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Tue Nov 25 09:01:44 1997 Return-Path: owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU [138.237.128.3]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id JAA27286; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 09:01:44 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (MAILER@TCUBVM) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01IQF3JPJMIO000W58@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU>; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:52:39 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5573; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:39:36 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 3395 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 07:38:44 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3394; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:09:56 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:08:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx1.dynasty.net (mx1.dynasty.net) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01IQEHCYV000000YXZ@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU> for scouts-l@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:08:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jessica ([208.205.50.113]) by mx1.Dynasty.Net (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA173 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:07:53 -0600 Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:06:45 -0600 From: "settummanque, or blackeagle (Mike Walton)" Subject: Eagle BOR Expectations Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List X-Sender: blkeagle@mail.dynasty.net To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Reply-to: "settummanque, or blackeagle (Mike Walton)" Message-id: <1.5.4.32.19971125030645.00c6a714@mail.dynasty.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: scouts-l@tcu.edu Status: RO X-Status: I kinda anticipated that others will want to see the full text; here it is. This has been included in the third set of EagleTips, which will be released sometime close to the December holiday season: (for those wanting to print it: the original came on a 8x11 sheet, with type in 8 point except for the heading, which was in 10 point bold.) --------start here------- West Tennessee Area Council Boy Scouts of America Instruction for Appearance before the ****************** District Board of Review These instructions should give you enough guidance for your upcoming appearance before the **************** District Board of Review for the Eagle Scout rank. Please take these instructions, read over them twice, and if you still have questions about them, please contact me at XXX-XXX-XXXX for additional guidance. I wish to congraduate you on making it this far in your quest to become one of our community's newest Eagle Scouts. Because of the nature and importance of this Board of Review, please note the following instructions. Note that unless otherwise stated, these instructions are to be met by Boy Scout, Varsity Scout and Explorer candidates; the generic term "Scouts" is used): Take to heart the Boy Scout Motto and "Be Prepared". Scouts and Explorers should come to the Board of Review as if they were coming to a job interview. Why? Because the members of your Board will represent a cross-section of this community and perhaps members from outside this community. One or more of these members will remember your appearance, and it may go a long way in recommending you or offering or providing you with a job. There is an additional reason: because you are a Boy Scout and it is expected of you. You should bring with you your Boy Scout Handbook and copies of cards or other items which backup your Boy Scout advancement, just like if you would bring a copy of your resume to a job interview. Explorers registered with an Explorer Post only should wear the Explorer field uniform (the green shirt, khaki long-legged pants and green shoulder loops) or the Boy Scout field uniform (the tan shirt, khaki long-legged pants with green shoulder loops) instead of their "Post Distinctive Dress Identity" items. There are NO exceptions to this request, because the Board members wishes to view the Explorer in an appropriate Boy Scout uniform since the Eagle Scout Badge is a Boy Scout advancement. Explorers registered with an Explorer Post and a Boy Scout Troop or Varsity Team should wear the complete Boy Scout field uniform, the one in which you will appear in when and if you recieve your Eagle Scout Badge. We want to see what you look like and we want you to have some personal pride in your appearance. We may not be able to see you at your Eagle Court of Honor, and this may be our ONLY opportunity to view what you look like in a Scout uniform. Please do NOT ask us for ANY "exceptions" to this request: you are appearing before a group of adults as part of the requirements for the Eagle Scout Badge, the highest and most honored badge in Scouting and in the world. It deserves more than you appearing before us wearing Sunday clothes or a teeshirt and bluejeans (even if they are clean!)" Scouts should appear wearing appropriate street shoes and socks. While tennis shoes are appropriate for Troop meetings, a Board of Review is much like a job interview. Therefore, wear your best Sunday or church shoes along with a pair of matching socks. No, we will not check your socks, but try sitting somewhere without having anyone to see what color or kind of socks you are wearing. Merit badge sashes (either the narrow one or the wide standard one) will be worn with the uniform; but please leave your Order of the Arrow sashes at home. We will know that you are an Order of the Arrow member by asking you to remove your sash during a portion of the Review as well as by asking you questions concerning your participation and membership in the Order of the Arrow. Please insure that all of your Merit badges earned up to the Board of Review are displayed on the sash, and not on the uniform sleeve or carried in a pocket. We base some of our questions to you from what we see on your uniform as well as comparing what is written on the application materials against what you are wearing. Troop, Team or Post/Ship-specific items likewise should be worn. This includes special unit neckerchiefs or bolo ties, special hats, or special insignia worn properly and in accordance with your unit's policy and that of this Council and the Boy Scouts of America. If you have any doubt, do NOT wear it but BRING IT to the Board of Review and ask before the Review starts. A Board of Review is a REVIEW, not an EXAMINATION. Therefore, there is no requirement for you to memorize merit badge requirements, descriptions of badges, nor anything dealing with the actual advancement steps itself. We are not allowed to ask you questions about the requirements for a badge or award but we ARE allowed to ask you how did you go about earning a specific badge or award and ask you to explain to us your "concept" of what the badge means or why you chose to work toward that award or badge. Please do not try to memorize the entire Boy Scout Handbook...we will have one handy for our reference and you should bring yours as well (go back up six paragraphs, where we ask you to bring it with you). You may read directly from the Handbook in responding to an answer if you feel you should. We will ask you questions dealing with your citizenship in your Patrol, Troop, District and Council; with your citizenship in your community, school, and perhaps ask you a couple of questions dealing with current newspaper or TV/Radio events. Therefore, you should review what you have done in this area and perhaps read the morning newspaper or watch/hear the noontime or early evening newscasts prior to your appearance. We will ask you questions dealing with your physical and personal fitness and how you have kept yourself "physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight". This will include how you have used the outdoor program of the Boy Scouts of America to your best advantage. Be ready to talk about camping and outdoor activities that you have participated in within the last year. We will ask you questions dealing with your personal character within your Patrol, Troop, District and Council as well as within your community and school. We may also ask you a couple of questions dealing with character issues as they relate to local or national news issues. Character is a hard thing to "pin down", so we have also taken the liberty of requesting general school data from your school or university, as well as asking several people you have listed on the application to provide us with information concerning your character. Be ready to discuss your school performance, your dealings with others in your unit, and your dealings and attitude toward others in your community and school. Questions like "do you attend a religious group or a church" and "what do you think the Scout Law point of Reverent means in your life" are generic questions we have asked other Scouts before you and which we will probably ask of you as well. DON'T "make up" answers to please us. The idea of the Board is to allow for two-way communication and sharing between candidate (that's you) and the five to seven individuals which makes up the Board...and for us to hear how you have used the Scouting Ideals in your daily life. You may ask questions of the Board, or ask for clarification in any question asked of you. Scouts in the past have asked "How important is the Eagle Badge to us?", "Please explain why that question is important?", "How long was your Eagle Board of Review?", "What does your job entails?", "What do you do in Scouts?", "How were you chosen to be a part of my Eagle Board?" and other appropriate questions. The Eagle Board of Review is NOT designed to "grind you up and spit you out" nor is it designed to "fail a significant number of Boy Scouts" or Explorers. We do NOT work on a quota nor any other system other than those specifically addressed in official BSA advancement materials. Members of your Board are not paid nor do they receive any other special compensation for their participation; naturally, your Scoutmaster, Coach or Advisor and his or her Assistants may watch but cannot give you "clues" or "hints" nor can they "speak up for you" or vote for or against you. We do not permit family members to participate in the Board or to view your participation. This is to allow you to express yourself freely and openly without concern of "hurting the feelings" of your family nor Scouting leaders. Scouts should not expect "retakes" nor "second chances", no matter whom you have heard this from. This is your chance to impress us with your Scout spirit, Scouting knowledge and to tell us what you have taken from the program and how you have used it in your personal life. Therefore, we will start promptly, review you appropriately, and make a decision promptly. We do NOT have time for you to "send someone to get something" nor to "wait until someone arrives with your neckerchief or merit badge sash". If we offer a "second chance" or a "retake", please be assured that we do so ONLY because we see potential or because of something totally out of the ordinary -- NOT because "we could not make a decision" nor because "we gave you a second chance because you were not ready the first time around". Make the most of your Eagle Board of Review appearance. You will remember it for the rest of your life, and you will want to share it with others in your unit, community and as you grow older, with your family and close friends. It is a unique way that a group of community members --and not just the Boy Scouts of America-- insure the success of the next generation of Scouts, citizens and in many cases, future leaders of businesses and corporations, our military, our local, state and federal governments, and "cultural icons" like movie stars, entertainers and professional sports players! Good luck!! (the District and Scouter's name appearing here has been removed. I was not an "official member" of that Board but participated at the request of a Scouter from this list whom requested me to participate because of the Scout involved in the Eagle review) Hope you find this useful in your District or Council!! Settummanque! (c) 1997 Mike Walton ("no such thing as strong coffee,...") (502) 827-9201 (settummanque, the blackeagle) http://dynasty.net/users/blkeagle 241 Fairview Dr., Henderson, KY 42420-4339 blkeagle@dynasty.net kyblkeagle@aol.com or waltonm@hq.21taacom.army.mil ---- FORWARD in service to youth ---- From <@tcuavm.is.tcu.edu:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Wed Nov 26 13:46:16 1997 Return-Path: <@tcuavm.is.tcu.edu:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Received: from server1.capaccess.org (server1.CapAccess.org [207.91.115.5]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id NAA28522; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:46:16 -0500 Received: from tcuavm.is.tcu.edu (TCUAVM.IS.TCU.EDU [138.237.128.148]) by server1.capaccess.org (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with SMTP id NAA19380; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:39:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by tcuavm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 5567; Wed, 26 Nov 97 12:39:24 CDT Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2401; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:39:36 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 9543 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:38:50 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9542; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:50:03 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 26 Nov 97 01:48:06 CDT Received: from mrin52.mx.aol.com (mrin52.mx.aol.com) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01IQG59QD3YO0016W0@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU> for Scouts-L@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 01:43:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin52.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id CAA15372; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:42:58 -0500 (EST) Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <971126024257_-2077092655@mrin52.mail.aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 02:42:58 -0500 Reply-To: NeilLup@AOL.COM Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: Neil Lupton Subject: Re: Eagle BOR Expectations X-To: blkeagle@dynasty.net, Scouts-L@tcu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 11/25/97 7:09:46 AM, blkeagle@DYNASTY.NET wrote: <> As a past Council Exploring Vice President, this paragraph from the guidelines for Eagle candidates for the BOR REALLY bothers me from a number of points of view. The BSA advancement requirements suggest that the youth come in uniform. 1) Explorer Posts do have the prerogative to create a distinctive uniform and THIS IS THEIR UNIFORM. If an Explorer, who may have paid substantial money for a police uniform, or fire uniform, or emergency service uniform were required to purchase another uniform in order to satisfy this additional requirement of the board, I would be livid. Granted, he at one time had a Boy Scout uniform, but that could have been years ago and Explorers can be much larger than they were as Boy Scouts. 2) I most strongly disagree that for Explorers, the Eagle is a Boy Scout award. For Explorers, it is an Exploring award with separate, though similar, Exploring requirements. To be honest, if this requirement for a Boy Scout like uniform were levied upon an Explorer when I had been Exploring VP and the council had District Eagle Boards, I would have convened a Board in the Exploring District to review the youth (with, of course, proper council representation.) If the council had council boards, I would have counseled with the Council advancement chairman and, if need be, with the Council VP for program and the Council Executive Board. Granted, Explorers earning the Eagle are rare. But that doesn't mean the uniqueness of the Exploring program should be ignored or discounted. I have no problem at all with an Eagle award being proudly pinned on a Police Explorer or Fire Explorer uniform. We do get worked up about the Eagle, don't we? Why don't we get equally worked up about Second Class Scout :) Neil Lupton