From Scouts-L@tcu.edu Tue Sep 23 12:50:48 1997 Return-Path: Scouts-L@tcu.edu Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU (outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.84]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id MAA15481; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:50:48 -0400 Received: from lightpost by outbound.Princeton.EDU with SMTP id <543543-8471>; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:26:20 -0400 Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU (pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU (8.8.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA14964; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2725; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:02:27 -0400 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7079; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:06:18 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 5915 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:05:28 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5914; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 02:24:57 -0500 Received: from emout03.mail.aol.com by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 23 Sep 97 02:24:55 CDT Received: (from root@localhost) by emout03.mail.aol.com (8.7.6/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id DAA16853 for Scouts-L@tcubvm.is.tcu.edu; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 03:23:18 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <970923032317_1619107509@emout03.mail.aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 03:23:18 -0400 Reply-To: BSA113@aol.com Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: Erik Mayer Subject: Re: Hazing -what next To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: My Troop has had a problem with discipline in general and some hazing. I = had a talk with the Junior Leaders and the Senior Patrol at our Troop's Junio= r Leader Training on the importance of setting a good example. The Junior Leaders are always complaing about discipline problems. This discussion m= ade them realize that THEY needed to get their act together FIRST, then the others will follow. They are now beginning to police themselves. They als= o came up with a Troop Discipline Policy, which can be found on our Troop W= eb site at http://members.aol.com/BSA113/trppg.html .=20 I was pround and impressed with the older Scouts at summer camp when they started a discussion on the importance of setting a good example and confronted one Scout who is not setting a good example. One of the Scouts= was concerned about the influence that the Scout is having on his younger cou= sin who is also in our Troop because his cousin looks up to the Scout who is = not setting a good example. The best part is that they started this discussio= n all on their own! Erik Mayer Scoutmaster Troops 113 & 166 Culver City, California http://members.aol.com/BSA113/trppg.html WEM 51-96 "I used to be a Buffalo" I am an Eagle! =9187 From Scouts-L@tcu.edu Tue Sep 23 12:52:01 1997 Return-Path: Scouts-L@tcu.edu Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU (outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.84]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id MAA15862; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:52:01 -0400 Received: from lightpost by outbound.Princeton.EDU with SMTP id <541826-8466>; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 12:31:41 -0400 Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU (pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU (8.8.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA14885; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:04:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2693; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 10:01:12 -0400 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7047; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:04:57 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 5973 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 09:04:10 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5972; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 06:18:46 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 23 Sep 97 06:18:44 CDT Received: from dove.mtx.net.au (dove.mtx.net.au) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01INZ06VWC680029FD@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU> for scouts-l@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 06:17:06 -0500 (CDT) Received: from ppp48a1.mtx.net.au (ppp48a1.mtx.net.au [203.15.30.48]) by dove.mtx.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.7.NO-SPAM) with SMTP id UAA29846 for ; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:46:56 +0930 (CST) X-Sender: sacubs@dove.net.au MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (16) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <3.0.16.19970923202826.37f7630a@dove.net.au> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 20:46:56 +0930 Reply-To: Sarah Jones Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: Sarah Jones Subject: Re: Upside down Bobcat X-To: scouts-l@tcu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: G'day all, >>The reason I was writing was we were considering pinning on Bobcat >>Badges upside down until the Cub Helped Someone (translated:a good >>turn) Sorry this is late..but 4 assigments over the last week, last one handed up yesterday means I am only getting to my mail today Here in Australia, at least where I live, we often put the woggle on upside down (we dont have such a award system as you guys do in the USA) when we invest them as a Cub Scout. I do it to all and explain that as they have just promised to 'Help other people' as apart of their promise. They have a week to do this good turn for someone and then when they come back to cubs next week and tell me about it, I turn it up the right way...the woggle that is, not the cub. It means they have to really think about what they have just promised to do and to see often how easy it is to help others...it doesnt have to be a big thing,. I will even accept a Cub comforting a fellow student in the school yard as a good turn, as they have gone to make sure that person is alright. Here hazing is also called teasing and this is a big no, as stated by the Cubs when we sat down and wrote the list of cub standards/rules back in Febuary for our scouting year.... YIS Sarah Jones CSL Angle Vale Elizabeth District South Australia http://dove.net.au/~sacubs/sarah.html From Scouts-L@tcu.edu Mon Sep 15 11:45:18 1997 Return-Path: Scouts-L@tcu.edu Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU (outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.84]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id LAA18767; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 11:45:18 -0400 Received: from lightpost by outbound.Princeton.EDU with SMTP id <545092-17265>; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:29:43 -0400 Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU (pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU (8.8.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA19537; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3383; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:08:39 -0400 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0548; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:12:20 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 0544 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:11:41 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0543; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:11:40 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Mon, 15 Sep 97 09:11:34 CDT Received: from tthsc3.lubb.ttuhsc.edu by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01INNZVEL6V4001JQ3@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU> for SCOUTS-L@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:10:01 -0500 (CDT) Received: from default ([198.213.97.215]) by tthsc3.lubb.ttuhsc.edu with SMTP; Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:09:51 -0500 X-Sender: CSRTJ@TTUHSC.EDU MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970915140932.006880e0@TTUHSC.EDU> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:09:32 -0500 Reply-To: Russ Jones Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: Russ Jones Subject: Re: Branding Bobcats X-To: SCOUTS-L@TCU.EDU To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: At 06:06 AM 9/15/97 +0000, Bob Knudson wrote: >It has been suggested to me (in a private message) that using the >branding ceremony for bobcat awards as I described in a previous message >is NOT hazing. Perhaps I've pondered the issue too long and I can't see >straight any more -- or I've attended too many YPP training sessions. > >I'd appreciate your thoughts on the issue and would like to be convinced >that its not hazing. Bob, Whether or not the ceremony you describe constitutes hazing is largely in the eyes of the recipient of the brand, I would think. On its face, it seems harmless enough, but I believe it has the potential to be an embarrassment to the boy being branded, and it has overtones that I object to. The facts that the brand is applied to the boy's backside (as opposed to some less private part of his anatomy) and that the other Cubs are in the habit of making hissing noises as it is applied would almost surely constitute at least a little bit of emotional trauma to some boys, and in such cases would be hazing--mild and temporary, perhaps, but hazing nontheless. Moreover, through its association with cattle (or slaves) being branded, it conveys the idea that the boy being branded has somehow become the property, rather than a member, of the pack. Instead of continuing this practice and seeking ways to justify it, why not institute a new ceremony that more clearly emphasizes acceptance of the boy as a member of the pack? Something with a Native American flavor comes to mind: perhaps a streak of washable face paint on the cheek along with words to the effect that, by earning his Bobcat badge, the young "brave" has earned a place of honor around the "tribe's council fire." The boys want to belong...but they want to belong as members, not as property. Yours in Scouting, Russ Jones Scoutmaster, Troop 575 & 1997 National Jamboree Troop 1636 South Plains Council, Lubbock, Texas Eagle Scout, class of 1965 "I used to be a fox..." SC-295 "I used to be a staffer..." SC-430, SR-110, SR-206