From <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Tue Jul 8 14:11:59 1997 Return-Path: <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Received: from server1.capaccess.org (server1.CapAccess.org [207.91.115.5]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id OAA10334; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:11:59 -0400 Received: from pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (smtpc@pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by server1.capaccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA63960; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:05:27 -0400 Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 9644; Tue, 08 Jul 97 14:03:18 EDT Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9959; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:03:18 -0400 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9568; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:06:19 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 9565 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:05:46 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9564; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:05:45 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Tue, 08 Jul 97 13:05:43 CDT Received: from welchlink.welch.jhu.edu (welchlink.welch.jhu.edu) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01IKZTYSYOY8000AP0@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU> for scouts-l@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU; Tue, 08 Jul 1997 13:04:50 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from hheine@localhost) by welchlink.welch.jhu.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA07955; Tue, 08 Jul 1997 14:02:16 -0400 (EDT) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:02:15 -0400 Reply-To: "HENRY S. HEINE" Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: "HENRY S. HEINE" Subject: I'm back Philmont 97' X-To: Scouts-l To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: Hello All, Well what a Trip! Actually I'm ready to go back out somewhere, anywhere. Our crew had a great time and I'm hopeful that much that they learned will show up in the troop over the next couple of months. Talk about Team building! For those of you still to go this year if you get the priviledge of having Luke Teske as your ranger give him my best. This young man I believe made a great impression on the boys and as I said before I hope some of it spills into the Troop. Our trip started on Father's Day with of course the Fathers taking turns driving. We camped the first night in Indiana and woke up to celebrate my son's birthday on the road. We pushed on to Topeka, Kas. and stayed at Camp Hammond, a YMCA camp nearby. For those of you from the east heading to Philmont or other points west this is a great stop. $1/person and an additional $10 if you want a cabin instead of just setting up a tent. There were hot showers a nearby lake and we were resupplied with ice as well. Contact Bruce Wolhuter at 913-379-5385 (the site manager). Anyway the next day we pressed on to Colorado and the Air Force Academy, where we toured the grounds and buildings and watched the gliders come in until dusk. On to Pikes peak and later Mt. Capulin in New Mexico on day 4 pulling into Philmont late in the evening. Highlights of Philmont, We were on trek #4 which was moderate and with the exception of one of our advisors maybe too moderate for the crew. The petrogliphs and excavations at Indian writings were interesting. I got to watch the full moon set over the canyon wall while the sun rose over the opposite wall in North Ponil Canyon. What a fantastic sight. Deer Lake absolutly pristine. The many views from atop the ridges. And watching night come across the plains from the Tooth and then the sunrise the following morning. The few lowlights were that every campsite was crowded and noisey. We felt that we were in Base Camp the whole 11 days. We had to share our site with another crew one night as all the campsites were taken. The conservation project was poorly organized, staffed and executed and compounded by the fact that logistics had us come down off the mountain 3-4 miles from our campsite and return only to cover the same ground the next day on our way to our next camp. But overall a great trip! But to finish I still think the West Virginia Mountains our prettier. On to summer camp with the Troop next week and back to Philmont in 99'. YIS Hank Heine hheine@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu SM Troop 615,COR Pack 461 National Pike Dist. Baltimore Area Council From <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Wed Jul 9 08:49:46 1997 Return-Path: <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Received: from pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (smtpc@pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA08427; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:49:46 -0400 Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 2937; Wed, 09 Jul 97 08:41:28 EDT Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6866; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 08:41:28 -0400 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2202; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:44:30 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 2199 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:43:56 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2198; Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:43:54 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 09 Jul 97 07:43:52 CDT Received: from beach.sctc.com (beach.sctc.com) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01IL0X15CY0G000BZT@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU> for scouts-l@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU; Wed, 09 Jul 1997 07:42:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mfil.terminal (mfil@localhost) by beach.sctc.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA07225 for ; Wed, 09 Jul 1997 07:42:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from sphinx.sctc.com (sphinx.sctc.com [172.17.192.3]) by beach.sctc.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA07216 for ; Wed, 09 Jul 1997 07:41:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: from november.sctc.com (november.sctc.com [172.17.65.32]) by sphinx.sctc.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA16815 for ; Wed, 09 Jul 1997 07:39:10 -0500 (CDT) MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <33C386A9.370@securecomputing.com> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 07:40:09 -0500 Reply-To: Mike Sieber Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: Mike Sieber Organization: Secure Computing Corporation Subject: I'm back from Philmont 97 too! X-To: Scouts-L To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: Scouters, Here's the low down on our crews trip to Philmont, 619-B. We left Wyoming, MN and traveled south to Iowa, somewhere in between, while I was driving, our trailer passed us on the freeway. After getting a new ball hitch, the correct size, we were on our way again. The trailer and all of our gear was perfectly intact, the trailer just rolled to a stop in the ditch. Our first night was spent at an Iowan state recreation area. Our second day traveling was uneventful, we spent night 2 at a family campground which had a pool, in Ogalla, NE. Third day traveling brought us to the Air Force Academy for a guided tour, and the campgrounds near the B-52 display. We heard coyotes that night as we slept. Our fourth day of traveling brought us to Philmont, where we checked in and met our ranger Keith Richey, a Pennsylvanian who talked like a Californian surfer dude. We had itinerary #13 which is as follows: Dropped off at the Ponil turnaround, and in order camped at; Sioux camp, Pueblano Ruins, Copper Park (2 days), Black Horse, Head of Dean, Dean Cow, Harlan, Aspen Springs, Upper Clarks fork, and then of course the Tooth of Time Ridge trail to base camp. Our side hikes/programs included: Ranger training, blacksmithing and panning for gold at French Henry (yes, we found some specks of gold), and early morning side hike up Baldy with 40-50 mile an hour winds at the top, food pickup at Baldy camp and a mining program, Mountain Man rendezvous, Black powder rifle shooting, and Tomahawk throwing at Miranda, conservation project, and challenge event at Head of Dean, crossing a stream 42 times on the way to Dean Cow, rock climbing and SHOWERS at Dean Cow, shotgun reloading/shooting and burro races at Harlan, relaxing at Aspen Springs, food pickup at Ute Gulch, westen lore, horseshoes, ropin', and brandin' at Clarks Fork, side hike Schaffers peak and the Tooth of Time, and finally the Base Camp pop machines! Hard to believe that we fit this all into 10 days! We figured that with side hikes and getting lost twice that we did about 70 miles. We also survived one hail storm at Head of Dean and saw a bear at Copper park. On our way back home, we stopped and went to see the Royal Gorge Bridge, whitewater rafing on the Arkansas river near Buena Vista, CO. Then on to Wyoming, the state not the city, to Devils tower and a climbing demo. We did not climb D.T. in respect to Native American religious beliefs there. On to Mount Rushmore for a 'special' hike from the park ranger to go behind the mounument to see the unfinished Hall of Records. We were going to stay 2 days to watch the fireworks on the 4th, but the boys wanted to keep going towards home, so were were off again. Arrived in Wyoming, the city not the state, around 1pm on the 4th. We charged $600 each person for the trip. We had several businesses that donated money and resources to us, most families only had to pay $250 for their boy to go. As it stands right now, we still have $1200 left unspent, we are undecided as to what we should do with it. Thoughts have ranged from: donating it to the Philmont Scholarship fund, donating it to our Troop's high adventure scholarship fund, giving portions back to the businesses, and even splitting it all up and giving money back to the families. I had a blast! I can't wait to take my daughter in 2007 and my son in 2011. Thanks for letting me share this with you! Mike Sieber SM T142 Wyoming, MN Indianhead Council #295 http://www.indianhead.org Northlakes District Agaming Lodge #257 - Brotherhood Eagle Class of '84 4 Silver palms and a Bronze "...used to be a Beaver" C-4-94 PHILMONT 1997 619-B From <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Sun Jul 13 21:21:24 1997 Return-Path: <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Received: from server1.capaccess.org (server1.CapAccess.org [207.91.115.5]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id VAA26477; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:21:24 -0400 Received: from pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (smtpe@pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by server1.capaccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA56401; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:14:53 -0400 Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6070; Sun, 13 Jul 97 21:12:45 EDT Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 6558; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 21:12:46 -0400 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7760; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:15:34 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 7747 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:15:00 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7746; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:14:53 -0500 Received: from georgetown.igg-tx.net by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Sun, 13 Jul 97 20:14:49 CDT Received: from Calvin (s22.pm1.igg-tx.net [207.141.119.41]) by georgetown.igg-tx.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00068 for ; Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:16:32 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <33C96EA6.1926@igg-tx.net> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 20:11:18 -0400 Reply-To: "Calvin H. Gray" <405geezer@IGG-TX.NET> Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: "Calvin H. Gray" <405geezer@IGG-TX.NET> Organization: Scoutmaster, Troop 405, Georgetown, Texas Subject: Philmont To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: The following report was written for our troop newsletter by Eagle Scout Scott Reynolds, an adult advisor during Philmont Expedition # 616-G-2. *********************************** Philmont was everything I hoped it would be. Having never gone as a Scout, I had hoped to go someday with my son. I know that some parents are not able to go for various reasons but if there is any chance that you can, please take the opportunity. To put it simply, Philmont is a two week long experience to see the incredible enchanting beauty of northern New Mexico; to see how far you can push your creaking old body on a freeze dried diet in temperatures ranging from 'real cool' to 'pretty hot'; with bright, clear, cool mornings to afternoon raging thunderstorms, complete with hail, testing the strength of your tent, to awsome western sunsets, to dead silent nights broken only by an occasional owl or even a scream of a mountain lion. You might have to endure walking through fields of gorgeous wildflowers or roaring snowmelt streams. You will struggle to climb to the top of the mountains of Baldy or the Tooth of Time and gaze down at the green valleys and marvel at surviving the trek. You will daily carry all your possessions on your back until you forget what the civilized world is like - at least until you reach a backcountry camp with real showers. You try to keep up with your crew in rock climbing, challenge courses, shotgun shooting, and burro racing. But the real beauty of Philmont is watching a group of boys become men. You are there to advise if needed and find yourself holding back making decisions because of your growing confidence in the decision making ability of your crew. Yes there were some wrong turns down the wrong trails and a few disagreements. But to watch these Scouts in the background of Philmont making man-sized decisions, working together and toughing out the daily hardships they faced and being able to laugh later and share our thoughts of the day around a campfire before we selpt was one of the most fulfilling experiences of my life. Philmont is a magical place, to me the essence to what Scouting is about. Friendships and memories are made that last a lifetime. I am proud of my crew's accomplishments and determination. I hope I can return to Philmont again someday as a grandparent (in about 25 years or so) with my son and his child to again live the Philmont experience. *********************************** YiS, Calvin Gray SM, Troop 405 Georgetown, Texas From <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Mon Jul 14 17:05:02 1997 Return-Path: <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Received: from server1.capaccess.org (server1.CapAccess.org [207.91.115.5]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id RAA26180; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 17:05:02 -0400 Received: from pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (smtpe@pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by server1.capaccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA39301; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:58:29 -0400 Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 8742; Mon, 14 Jul 97 16:56:32 EDT Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 8755; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:56:32 -0400 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3742; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:59:40 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 3739 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:59:07 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3738; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:59:05 -0500 Received: from georgetown.igg-tx.net by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Mon, 14 Jul 97 15:58:34 CDT Received: from Calvin (s16.pm1.igg-tx.net [207.141.119.35]) by georgetown.igg-tx.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA04969 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 16:00:50 -0500 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------4C5B47D871FA" Message-ID: <33CA8412.4C5F@igg-tx.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:54:58 -0400 Reply-To: "Calvin H. Gray" <405geezer@IGG-TX.NET> Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: "Calvin H. Gray" <405geezer@IGG-TX.NET> Organization: Scoutmaster, Troop 405, Georgetown, Texas Subject: Philmont Weight Limits To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4C5B47D871FA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are the 1997 Philmont weight limits. --------------4C5B47D871FA Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: <405geezer@igg-tx.net> Received: from Calvin (s16.pm1.igg-tx.net [207.141.119.35]) by georgetown.igg-tx.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA04932 for <405geezer@igg-tx.net>; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:58:11 -0500 Message-ID: <33CA8373.3252@igg-tx.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:52:19 -0400 From: "Calvin H. Gray" <405geezer@igg-tx.net> Reply-To: 405geezer@igg-tx.net Organization: Scoutmaster, Troop 405, Georgetown, Texas X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: 405geezer@igg-tx.net Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Philmont Weight Limits] References: <33B46682.E7@igg-tx.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here are the "Maximum Acceptable" weights from the 1997 Philmont Medical Form: Height Max Weight 5' 0" 166 5' 1" 172 5' 2" 178 5' 3" 183 5' 4" 189 5' 5" 195 5' 6" 201 5' 7" 207 5' 8" 214 5' 9" 220 5' 10" 226 5' 11" 233 6' 0" 239 6' 1" 246 6' 2" 252 6' 3" 260 6' 4" 267 6' 5" 274 6' 6" 281 There is a note that states the maximum weight for expeditions is 295 lbs. --------------4C5B47D871FA-- From <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Fri Jul 18 02:15:15 1997 Return-Path: <@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Received: from pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (smtpc@pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id CAA18127; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 02:15:15 -0400 Received: from PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU by pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6386; Fri, 18 Jul 97 02:06:42 EDT Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5567; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 02:06:42 -0400 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0721; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:09:37 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 0715 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:08:53 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 0714; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:08:51 -0500 Received: from myco.isd.net by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Fri, 18 Jul 97 01:08:49 CDT Received: from mmmpc158.isd.net (pm-1-204.InnovSoftD.com [207.1.200.204]) by myco.isd.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA05661; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:07:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Message-ID: <199707180507.AAA05661@myco.isd.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 01:07:15 -0600 Reply-To: Steven Tobin Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List Comments: Authenticated sender is From: Steven Tobin Subject: Re: Need Philmont Info X-To: sharon-gleaves@uokhsc.edu To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L In-Reply-To: <9707151446.AA26058@rex.ouhsc.edu> Status: RO X-Status: Hi Sharon, I thought I would reply to the list, as I hope everyone will find the information useful someday. Mike covered most of your questions, but as I just returned about 3 weeks ago (has it been that long already:^( ??) I though I would fill in a little. It was an absolutely fantastic experience on just about every front. The training and conference leaders were first rate. I have more information, ideas and motivation than is healthy for any one person. I'm like an old dog who's full of fleas... I just don't know where to bite first. The other conference attendees were also great. It was a wonderful experience associating for a solid week with leading scouters from all over the country. The energy, synergy and information that was exchanged could power a city for a month. It was great for the families, also. Everyone soon became comfortable with meeting new people and making new friends. The phrase "Were are you folks from?" was the standard coversation opener. After a week all the Southerners there had even _me_ talking with a drawl, Y'all! :^) The staff was outstanding and would move mountains (figuratively) to make everyone's stay memorable. The family programs, especially for the kids, were very well done. It was gratifying to watch the youngsters making friends so easily and naturally. By the end of the first day there were groups of new buddies all over the place. The atmosphere for the families was truly unique. As far as additional practical tips: I would suggest bringing a sleeping bag. The nights were COLD!, about 40 degrees, and the blankets they issue are pretty thin. I don't know how you are getting there, but a car, while handy, should not be necessary once there. There is a bus tour on Wednesday afternoon that takes you to Cimmeron and the Kit Carson Museum. Folks car pool a lot, also. The main need would be if you want to go to Taos (the main tourist offering) or Raton on Wednesday. The Scout camp facility, the Seton Library and museum and the trading post are walking distance. However, check the packet of information they sent for car rentals. A lot of people flew into Albequrque (sp??) and rented a car there (about a 2 1/2 hour drive). There is, unfortunatly, no fishing around Philmont. The rivers ("Around here, if it has water in it all year, son, we call it a river!") are pretty small and not close to the Philmont facility. I would forget the tackle, but they will keep him plenty busy enough that I doubt if he will miss it. While, as Mike said, there is plenty of pop around, I didn't see any candy, snacks or such offered for sale. The meals are served cafeteria style in two dining halls in two shifts. When you check in they give each person a name tag with tent city (there are two - south and east), tent and dining assignments on it. The quality, while hardly 4-star (or even 1-star), was tolerable and (I'm told) better than last year. A decent salad bar and plentiful fresh fruit saved the day for most of us. They served a vegetarian entree when there was a meat offering, but it was usually really _mean_ stuff; it would turn the most avid vegetarian to eating meat... raw and cold. The staff, like everywhere else at Philmont, was very pleasant and helpful and made the cafeteria a pleasant place to be. Bring a good hat, with a wide brim and ventilated. The sun is very intense, so if you are sensitive take precautions. Bring a quart water jug for each person that you can carry with you all the time. The air is very dry and you will be drinking water like crazy. Guaranteed. I didn't like the taste of the water there very well. I would use a little instant lemonade - at about 1/4 normal rate or less. It is an old remedy I ran across, and it works. I made up Scouting "business cards" on the computer before I left, and they proved invaluable. You can buy the perferated blanks at Wallmart, 10 sheets, 10 per sheet, for about $3.00. Make up the card using your word processor and the label printing feature. Print them out, tear them apart, and there you are. I have rambled way too long, but if you have any specific questions feel free to contact me. I went into it with reservations, but came away an avid fan of Philmont and the Training Center. Everyone was very reluctant for the week to end, and looking forward to next time. Philmont is a unique place and experience. Steve Steve Tobin, SM Troop 39, Cannon Falls, MN Wakpaota District Roundtable Commissioner, Gamehaven Council Visit the NetWoods Virtual Campsite at: http://www.isd.net/stobin/index.html