From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sun Nov 2 18:00:53 1997 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 18:00:51 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: "A.A.M." cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Webelos Patrol Leaders In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Alicia, Flexibility is the key to successful Den leadership. Every Den Leader is going to have a few Den meetings taken up with fun stuff like outings to tour local highlights, Pack activities, and holidays. There's nothing wrong with having a Saturday or Sunday afternoon Den Meeting to do things the Den wants to do. Another key is educating the parents on how the program is supposed to work. Cub Scouting (Webelos included) was designed as a family program - family involvement is critical. Webelos should be doing many of the requirements at home with their families. Yes, you are the one that signs off on requirements at this stage, but family effort is still needed. There are many things like the requirements for Traveler that are best done in a family setting. And yet another key is using your resources. Why not have a Saturday meeting in a dad or mom's garage to learn how to use tools and do some of the requirements that just can't be done in an hour. Invite the parents to help out and contribute a little extra time on a weekend or a different night. A wonderful selling point is to remind them that when you boil it down to its essentials all the stuff in Cub Scouting/Webelos is the same stuff any parent would like to be able to do with his/her son, if there was enough time. The advantage of sharing in Scouting, is that by using all of our resources we can do more of these things than a parent could do on their own. So lend a hand and help me, the Den Leader, do the things you want to do anyway. ;-) Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area) Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Mon Nov 3 23:08:11 1997 Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 23:08:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List Subject: Duty to God Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: In lieu of trying my own hand at expressing a few thoughts on this thread, I would like instead to share with you the words of one of the World's most esteamed Scouters, speaking from Gilwell Park. The following are excerpts from a speech given to the 18th International Conference of the Boy Scouts World Bureau in September 1961. The speaker was John Thurman, Camp Chief of Gilwell Park, England. It was printed in the May 1962 issue of The Scout Leader [Canada]. The Spiritual Training of Scouts B.-P. said: "An Organisation of this kind would fail in its purpose unless it brought its members to a knowledge of religion." In 1957 the 16th International Conference passed a Resolution which came to be known as the "Faith and Endeavour Resolution", in which it reaffirmed its faith in the fundamental principles of Scouting, putting duty to God as the first of these principles. . . . It is vital to remember that entry into Scouting is entirely voluntary but that the making of the Promise is a condition of membership for each individual boy or man . . . If we believe and accept these Conference Resolutions, . . . then it seems to me obvious that we can admit and use only those adults who are prepared to accept the principles, including the religious principles, upon which Scouting is based. . . . I have always welcomed the spiritually active young seeker who in the process of running a Scout Troop finds the right spiritual road for himself. The genuine seeker I know we can use, and I believe we should use him, but deliberately to allow into contact with boys the militant agnostic, the declared atheist, or the middle-aged spiritual lay-about is, I suggest, unwarranted, unfair to boys and their parents, and a betrayal of Scout principles. . . . I conceive it possible that if we abandoned all our principles we might recruit more leaders and consequently could handle more boys and perhaps -- although I doubt it -- in ten years we might double the number of registered Scouts, but we would have lessened a hundredfold the true strength of Scouting for we would end with something that had betrayed its past and in so doing had betrayed its purpose. . . . My overriding fear in regard to Scouting is that it will die of respectability, having lost the urge to attempt the difficult and ending as a rather nice middle-class Movement. It is more important to be proud of what Scouting does for the boyhood of the world than to be proud of Scouting. . . . I want to appeal too that we strengthen our tolerance towards other faiths. "None has a monopoly of truth." Tolerance does not mean weakness or a weakening of your own faith, for it says in effect, "This is what I believe but I respect your right to be different," but that is not the same thing as tolerating the right to be spiritually lazy or to believe nothing. . . . Why should a Movement like this set out to please an agnostic or an atheist adult? Why should we allow him to contaminate (and I use the word deliberately) the efforts of tens of thousands of adults who accept the principles of Scouting without question and who try to carry them effectively into the lives, the hearts, and the spirits of their boys? Don't tell me that it is brotherly to countenance evil. I believe that Scouting must be militant in its approach to fundamentals, and the fundamentals of Scouting without duty to God are worthless. Our Founder gave us a Promise couched in no uncertain terms and presented in an order of descending loyalties: God, country, other people. That order remains vital. Our efforts should be aimed at its maintenance. I have not attempted to define God. I know what I mean; You know what you mean -- and unless I am very much mistaken we know what each other means, but our predecessors in Scouting, at the International Conference in 1949, had this to say, and I commend it to you: It does imply the acceptance of the highest that we know as a guide to life and the recognition that behind all life lies a spiritual reality which provides the purpose and direction. It carries with it also the duty of service to others as part of our duty to God. However impossible the individual may find it to say precisely what he means by such terms as spirit, soul, and conscience, the recognition of these in experience is a step towards fuller knowledge. The man who sincerely finds it impossible to accept one creed, or to join any one church, yet at the same time continues his search for the truth, can in all honour take the Scout Promise." . . . I believe we have the faith. Now, personally and -- I pray -- unitedly we must make the endeavour. Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area) Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Wed Nov 5 21:39:02 1997 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 21:39:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: "Michael N. Kazarinoff" cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: dividing dens In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19971105072629.006977dc@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Holly, There have been many who have started out with a huge den convinced that it would work spurred on by other adults that were also certain of success. Fewer than half of the ones that I've seen have survived the year without major problems, mostly with the adults. Typically it gets to the point where about half the parents are participating and decide that the other half are not being fair, why don't we have our own den and x___ 'em. Or it gets to the point on the boy side that one or more of the boys are not getting the kind of personal association with an adult that is really needed for t he boy to thrive. Either way, it can cause problems. Time for some serious reflection on the part of the adults. Ask 'em how many can remember to how they felt about the world, their friends, school, etc. when they were the same age as these Cubs. How many of them were really comfortable with larger groups? How many wished their were times they could have had a little more attention? How many ended up on the bottom in a larger group? How many had more than a few really good chums? You can see where I'm headed. They need to think what it is like for the boys. And they need to be thinking of what is best for the boys, not for themselves. Or necessarily from their adult way of seeing things. The "patrol" size groupings used in Scouting are used for good reason. They are small enough to be easily managed, large enough for a bit of competition, perfect for forming close associations and friendships, and small enough that it isn't hard to find a place to meet or to take on a trip without a lot of hassle. Once you get much beyond 8, you start to have logistics problems to go anywhere and some boys get left behind. You probably can't tell that I think splitting a den this large would be a good iedea. ;-)) Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area) Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Wed Nov 5 21:55:52 1997 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 21:55:50 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: BLUE-EYED EAGLE <0203127@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: A permanent decision In-Reply-To: <971104234416.2021d47d@ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Though it may be kind of interesting to join in the tide of comment on the ever popular discussion of religion and Scouting, I would urge list members to take a moment to consider Devin's posting about the suicide of a young Scout and perhaps switch gears for a bit to share. This is tough topic to discuss and one that many will find uncomfortable. But life isn't always comfortable. Sometimes bad things do happen and happen to us or the Scouts we serve. Sometimes these things are pretty hard to deal with even for an adult, because of all the things we go through when tragedy strikes - anger, denial, etc. It is particularly hard for the leader to continue to try to be counselor and coach with a bunch of fellows while wrestling with his own grief and questions about what could have been done, even if there wasn't much that could have been done. My heart goes out to Devin and his boys. They are going to be having a rough time for awhile. I know that many on this list have had personal experience with tragedy in a Troop whether it was the young Venture Scout in Australia or the young Venture Scout here in our own Council. It happens and there is very little training in Scouting for how to deal with it. And deal with it we must. When it happens the results can be devastating for those left behind. There seems to be a phenominon where frieds of a teen suicide also consider and sometimes carryout a follow-on suicide. The problem doesn't always work itself out without help. What have you done when confronted with this situation? What has worked? What has been helpful? Sure it won't work for everyone, but the idea might help now or later when another of us stares tragedy in the face. Though I have sorrow that Devin has had to face this situation, I also see this as an opportunity for all of us to grow together, to share some ideas that may well stand between a Scout and self-destructive behaviors and ideas that may help other Scouts from suffering more than they must. Instead of talking about the meaning of the Scout Law, we have the chance to live its meaning. Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area) Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Wed Nov 5 23:22:59 1997 Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 23:22:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: SCOUTS-L - Youth Groups Discussion List Subject: A permanent decision Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: A couple of years ago Cliff Golden shared a few thoughts with us when two Scouts that he knew passed away, one from cancer. In his posting he shared the following poem, which then as now says so much: We can't know why the lily has so brief a time to bloom in the warmth of sunlight's kiss upon its face, Before it folds it fragrance in and bids the world good-night to rest its beauty in a gentler place, But we can know that nothing that is loved is ever lost, and no one who has ever touched a heart can really pass away, because some beauty lingers on in each memory of which they've been a part. Ellen Brenneman Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area) Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sat Nov 8 19:21:53 1997 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 19:21:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Henry Mowry cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Quality award questions In-Reply-To: <34637C0F.55386283@scv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Henry, You are right on the money in describing the Quality District and Quality Council award requirements. However, on the matter or recognition it is my understanding that patches can be ordered if the Council elects to do so. In the past I've purchased Quality District patches to wear and have one on my uniform as I type. Have things changed this year; e.g., have the patches been discontinued? Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area) Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sat Nov 8 19:54:00 1997 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 19:53:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Morrisonch cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: The Challenge of Life In-Reply-To: <7cbc5ac5.3462444c@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Charlie and others have talked about suicide prevention programs, statistics on deaths by suicide, and the need for some way to help more of us as volunteers have a better understanding of how we can do what I'll call first aid counselling and listening along with how to use resources available to us to help maybe just one young fellow to know that he doesn't have to make this terrible choice. The outpouring of thoughts in response to Devin's tragedy both public and private has been strong. Just goes to show that we are family. And I think we all share a hope that "this won't happen to me" in my unit or in my home. But we also know that it could happen to any of us any time and maybe without any warning that we could understand. We've broken some new ground here, at least for me. In my nearly 30 years with Scouting I've never seen such a frank and open discussion of this topic - teen suicide. But that is the beauty of this tool we use called e-mail. We can change past conventions. BSA did that many years ago when a study revealed that the number preventable cause of death for young men was drowning. BSA pioneered in teaching swimming and safe boating in its camps to help stem the problem and was largely successful. Today we have another killer on the lose that is high in the causes of what might be preventable death. But this one is a lot more difficult to deal with and handle. Few of us know without training what might be warning signs or would think that a Scout's life might hang on whether we could sense right time to give undivided attention and a listening ear. Perhaps we as a group could bang our heads together and come up with some ideas about some way to incorporate training in this subject to adult leader training, youth protection training, junior leader training, etc. We spend a lot of time in discussion helping each other out, helping each other to do a better job with our Scouts, and sharing in all manner of ways that help us each to do better. Why not spend a bit of time and channel that for a short while into some thoughts on how we might put some ideas together for a program that would perhaps help save lives? And of course the bi-product would be a proof of the value of this Internet tool in doing something very positive. So I challenge you all to join in and share ideas on how such a thing could be done. No doubt we have professional counselors, psychologists, doctors, clergy, and others that can help right here on the list. And no doubt we can figure out how to put things together in a way that might be persuasive. And if we succeed in doing something positive that either by its process or by its result leads to a single Scout turning away from death and accepting the CHALLENGE OF LIFE, we will have succeeded. Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area) Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sat Nov 8 23:35:36 1997 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 23:35:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Neil Lupton cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Eagle Palms Board of Review In-Reply-To: <971107174320_-1911658213@mrin40.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: I agree with Neil and would go a bit further. This is a great opportunity to ask these wonderful young men for advice about what they see as working in the Troop and what could be improved. They are by this time at a point where they have demonstrated leadership and achievement and ready to move on in their journey to becoming adults. Give them a chance to become part of the dialog about the Troop or Post. Afford them the opportunity to be even more of a contributor. Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area) Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sat Nov 8 23:44:43 1997 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 23:44:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: "Michael A. Golrick" cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Registering Adult Leaders & Requirements Book In-Reply-To: <199711051605.LAA17019@comet.connix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Michael, It is up to the chartering organization to select the unit's leadership. And like an employer they are not obliged to take on anyone who professes an interest in being a leader. In many ways they should be looking for the best folks available to do the best job with the Scouts. If these parents have a track record of being a pain in the nether regions, the chartering organization may well decide that it is for the better to discourage them or simply say "NO" we don't need you at this point as a leader, however, there are some things that you can do to help (if there are things that need to be done that won't cause problems if these folks do it). Yeah, in reality a lot of times we see chartering organizations that are greatful for just about any warm body with a desire to help. However, they still retain ultimate responsibility for assuring that the adult leadership is right for the unit. Mike Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area) Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sun Nov 9 15:41:46 1997 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 15:41:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Dennis Haynes cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Tigers, Athiests, Christians and Jews In-Reply-To: <971107131605_1347114029@mrin86.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Although many Packs use a single candle to represent the light of Akela at a meeting, there is no rule that you must do the same. You can use candles to represent just about whatever you would like. A popular ceremony uses Blue & Gold, Green & Red, and a White candle for Webelos Crossover. Most use the colors to represent the colors of Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting and explain their meaning. The white candle variously represents leadership, the light of knowledge, growth, Akela, BP, or whatever the unit decides works best. I don't have a script because this is a loose ceremony with lots of variation. Another uses five white candles for a closing. One each for Council/District Scouters, Committee, Unit Leaders, and Den Leaders. The last is for parents. The ceremony talks about adults giving light and leadership. As each is snuffed out we talk about how the light is diminished, but still there because of the ones left. At the end the only light left is for parents and parents are told that without their help and cooperation this light too will be extinguished leaving their Scouts to grow in darkness - snuff. When I was a Cubmaster I used a long awards board with pictures of each rank across its length with a candle in front of each. When a boy got a rank, the candle for that rank was lit and a totem added below the rank. These things are all used to great a dramatic effect as a prop to help you convey a message. And they are effective. Just yesterday I happened on to a Cub Scout popcorn booth at the mall and to my delight found it was my old Pack - a few years back. ;-) Well had to buy popcorn and chat. When I mentioned who I was and that I had been Cubmaster, one of the little fellows said "Wow, you're him?" "You're the old Cubmaster that made the board with the candles?" Boy that took me by surprise. Apparently the board is still in use making an impression on the little fellows and some even know who made the board. I guess that just goes to show that these things when used to good effect can create quite an impression. Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area) Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sun Nov 9 15:54:08 1997 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 15:54:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Dennis Haynes cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Tigers, Athiests, Christians and Jews In-Reply-To: <971107131605_1347114029@mrin86.mail.aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Dennis and all, In my last posting I let my fingers get ahead of my brain and posted to the wrong subject, which should have been Candles. My apologies. Had two e-mails I want to respond to and went to fast. This is the other one. Dennis raises an interesting and challenging question. Some may jump to the conclusion that because the family is atheist that the Scout must necessarily also be an atheist. And the Scout may himself not be sure just where he stands. I tend to think that in each person there is a little bit of a belief that there is something greater than all of us even if they don't come right out and say that they believe in God or some set of religious beliefs. This may be the same as with this boy who would like to be a Cub Scout. It may be that if he had a chance to talk freely with someone t hat he was comfortable with, he might well acknowledge a belief in something greater than him self and have some ideas about his relationship. It may not be well thought out or complex, but it may be the foundation. If so, I wouldn't hesitate to allow him in. We all struggle with what we believe and so long as he has some belief in something greater than himself, I'd be willing to take a chance that he'd discover more through Scouting. If his family forbade him to say the Promise or if he absolutely rejected any notion of anything supreme to himself, I would be extremely hesitant to accept his application for membership without consulting my Scout Executive. Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area) Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia