From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Thu Oct 16 00:46:15 1997
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 00:46:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: Michael Salvetti <msalvett@LINKNET.KITSAP.LIB.WA.US>
cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: BSA Knife Rules
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971015110718.20243A-100000@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
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Michael,

Going back to the 1993 Guide to Safe Scouting (I don't have any earlier 
than that) the same language was in place advising the avoidance of large 
sheath knives.  In 1995 this was emphasized by adding italics. BSA's 
policy for the last several years has been to advise against the use of 
large sheath knives without explicitly prohibiting them.

That said, you may find that locally things are different. Each Council 
has a Council Risk Assessment Committee that advises the Scout Executive 
and Executive Board on liability issues.  This committee may have set up 
a rule in a local Council banning such knives on Council properties.  

Similarly, it is not uncommon for units to devise their own guidelines to 
membership and clearly state that members of Troop 1991 will not carry 
sheath knives or that members found carrying such a knife will be sent 
home immediately, etc.

Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org  Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts
U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area)
Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia


From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Thu Oct 16 01:01:15 1997
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:01:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: "John M. Teske" <Jmteske@aol.com>
cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Eagle dates
In-Reply-To: <971007125144_-628485489@emout02.mail.aol.com>
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John and Dave,

This is from a previous posting and good source info:

Date:         Thu, 19 Oct 1995 05:40:20 -0400
From: Dave McCullough <Mccecolsys@AOL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Camp Kline, PA

Jim Wood wrote on 10-16-95,

<<<My dad was born in 1900  and was one of the first scouts, later he earned
the eagle at the age of 29!  ...any one rember when adults could earn the
eagle ?>>>

According to the book A Comprehensive Guide to the Eagle Scout Award, by
Terry Grove, adults could earn the Eagle until 1965.  The following is from
page 1:

"In the early days of scouting through 1965, both boys and men could earn the
rank of Eagle Scout.  But since 1965, only the boy can earn this prestigious
award and it must be earned before the young man's eighteenth birthday."

"Around 1950, the National BSA program began to frown on the adult scouter
earning the Eagle Scout Award.  However, some adults did continue to earn the
Eagle Scout Award until 1965.  In 1965, when the requirements were 
changed to
include that a prospective Eagle Scout must hold a boy office for 6 months,
adults finally were no longer able to earn the Eagle Scout Award."

"In the 50's and 60's, whether or if an adult earned the award largely
depended on the individual Council's program emphasis.  Some Councils
discouraged adults from earning the award.  Others encouraged the adults to
earn the award, believing that an adult who earned the award would be more
helpful in understanding what a boy was required to do to earn the Eagle
Scout Award."

Dave McCullough
Eagle Scout '80
Boulder Dam Area Council



Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org  Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts
U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area)
Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia


From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Thu Oct 16 01:28:53 1997
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:28:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: The Gillams <a2m5u8gt@COASTALNET.COM>
cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Scout Committee
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19971011123210.006cf390@mail1.coastalnet.com>
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The Gillams,

In a situation like this I would encourage you to move to a quality Troop
with a good program and good leadership.  You are not obligated to go to
a Troop just because it is chartered to the same organization as your
Pack.  Your son deserves the best possible Scouting experience. He won't
get it in that Troop.  Even if you succeed in cleaning house and setting
things right, it will take months, months during which your son will not
have the full benefits of the program and during which time he may decide
he really doesn't want to stay in Scouting.

Yes the troop needs to clean up its act, but it also sounds like these
folks are resistent to change. I'd simply let the commissioner staff know 
why you are moving and any details that would be helpful. They can try to 
nudge, persuade, or coach the unit to mend its ways.  Restoring such a 
unit is a long-term project.  In the meantime, your son could be really 
having a lot of fun, learning, growing, and advancing in a unit that is 
boy-lead with a good outdoor program.


Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org  Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts
U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area)
Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia


From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Thu Oct 16 01:36:24 1997
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:36:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: "Westfall, Carl" <Carl.Westfall@CBN.ORG>
cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Scout is Honest
In-Reply-To: <F1E3DC1E7F0AD0119D670080D82078833C48D2@NT4>
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Carl,

As a COR you are no doubt painfully aware that the chartered organization 
is responsible for the quality of the leaders it has in its units.  I 
would recommend that you meet with the Institutional Head and Chartered 
Organization Representative and discuss this matter with them personally. 
They need to know that there is a serious leadership problem.  They 
should be very concerned to have a leader who is worthy of the trust they 
have placed in him/her.  If upon review they agree with you they do have 
the power to change the Troop's leadership.  

At the same time I would give the District Commissioner a courtesy call 
to make sure he/she knows the situation.  Then you can refer the IH and 
COR to the District Commissioner for outside assistance in recruiting new 
unit leadership, if they agree with you that this SM should step down.

The conduct of this SM and some of his ASMs creates a poor example of 
living the Scout Law and certainly casts doubt on his personal 
integrity.  

Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org  Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts
U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area)
Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia


From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Thu Oct 16 01:47:32 1997
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 01:47:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: Bruce Dollens <Bruce-Dollens@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ideas?
In-Reply-To: <19971014033600.AAA19245@att.worldnet.att.net>
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Bruce,

You have a potential resource pool of Scouters with lots of experience, 
and unfortunately perhaps a lot of baggage.  Seems like what you need is 
a sorting process to find the ones you really want and a recuriting strategy.

First, let each one know that you value their knowledge and experience 
and would like their advice, being young and less experienced. Invite 
them to a get together and let them know that you'll be all ears.  
Solicit their views on a variety of subjects and listen.  This gathering 
should show you some of the group dynamics of this crowd. You'll quickly 
see who is still interested in working to deliver the promise to the 
Scouts, who is a leader of the disgruntled, who is destructive, who is 
full of helpful information, etc.

Second, after the meeting do some tough evaluations of each person. It 
will be helpful to have a short list of qualifications you'd like each to 
possess.  Compare.  Narrow down the group to those that you really want 
to work with.  These will be your prospects.  Don't include anyone that 
is going to consume more of your time with troubles than with help.  Weed 
out the ones that are disruptive or destructive in attitude.  

Next, for each person make a list of the things you like, admire, etc.  
Try to learn a little about what each of these people likes.

Meet with each one privately and do a modified recruiting pitch the same 
as you'd do for someone brand new to Scouting.  Let them know why you 
think they are valuable, what interests you share, etc.  Get their 
commitment to move forward without looking back to previous troubles.  

Do a few at a time until you get the full measure of the situation.  You 
may end up with only a few out of the group, but hopefully these will be 
the ones that you really want and who'll contribute the most.  If this 
group isn't large enough start some recruiting from the community.

Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org  Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts
U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area)
Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia


From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Thu Oct 16 02:09:53 1997
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 02:09:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Michael F. Bowman" <mfbowman@CapAccess.org>
To: Tom Lynch <woodsliv@TMINET.COM>
cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L <SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Frustrated with M/B councilor
In-Reply-To: <34456344.E0D4291F@tminet.com>
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Tom,

This Troop is cheating the Scouts of the opportunity to learn and grow by 
attempting to run large groups through a factory process in the shortest 
possible time.  And the Scouts probably are all too aware that they are 
not doing anything to merit awards, which means that the whole process is 
probably regarded by them as something of a joke.  There's not much honor 
in getting an award you didn't earn.  They may end up getting badges, but 
they'll miss out on most of the benefits of the program.

Unfortunately, some unit leaders will never see the need to be trained 
and never have a basic grasp of how the program is supposed to work.
These folks seem to have a higher rate of long-term failure and lead to 
failed units.

Your chartered organization should be interested in the quality of the 
leaders it has selected.  Perhaps the first place to start would be there 
and by educating them as to the aims and methods of Scouting.  If they 
can understand the problem, they may step in and help.  

If they are not interested, you can also enlist the help of your 
commissioner staff.  These "outsiders" can help nudge,counsel, and coach 
leaders, but it is a slow process because they are not there to suplant 
the leaders or to take over the jobs of the unit leader.  If the unit 
leadership rejects all opportunities to explore how to do a better job, I 
would suggest considering affiliation with another unit.

Speaking only for myself in the Scouting Spirit, Michael F. Bowman
E-mail: mfbowman@capaccess.org  Visit: ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts
U. S. Scouting Service Project FTP Site Administrator (PC Area)
Helping to deliver the promise of Scouting from Alexandria, Virginia