From owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Sat Nov 22 17:41:08 1997 Return-Path: owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU [138.237.128.3]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id RAA22895; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 17:41:08 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (MAILER@TCUBVM) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01IQBE1HYGG0000NGZ@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU>; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 16:00:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4023; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:59:39 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 4020 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:58:08 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4019; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:58:06 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:56:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mx1.dynasty.net (mx1.dynasty.net) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01IQBDV82PHC000O61@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU> for scouts-l@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:55:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jessica ([208.205.50.102]) by mx1.Dynasty.Net (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA74; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:55:48 -0600 Date: Sat, 22 Nov 1997 15:54:54 -0600 From: "settummanque, or blackeagle (Mike Walton)" Subject: Re: Council vs. Local Patches Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List X-Sender: blkeagle@mail.dynasty.net To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Reply-to: "settummanque, or blackeagle (Mike Walton)" Message-id: <1.5.4.32.19971122215454.00c8be50@mail.dynasty.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-To: "Kevin S. Woods" , scouts-l@tcu.edu Status: RO X-Status: Kevin asked about the City and State strips: >Back when I was a youth, we used a rocker patch to indicate our town >and state. It was called a "community and state" strip, Kevin. When the BSA went to the new uniforms, many local Councils by then had already came out with their own special patches for their District and Council volunteers, instead of having them to wear nothing but a position patch on the left shoulder. The Council Shoulder Strip was universally accepted by most local Councils, the BSA Supply Division sent out samples of what they should look and what kinds of things are acceptable to put on them, and many local Councils still allowed the older city and state strips to be worn for a five year period afterwards. Today, virtually all members of the BSA wear a CSP of some sort which identifies which local Council they belong to. The only exceptions are Explorers, which may wear a special DDI insignia to indicate where the Post or Ship is from as well as other information. >2. I have seen some troops with the old rocker patch and their troop >number on their shoulder INSTEAD of the council patch....so is there an >insignia guide rule that allows for this? Yep. Local COUNCILS have the authority to authorize units within their Council to continue to wear the City and State strips, but it is understood that the costs of purchasing those strips are borne by the UNIT and NOT the Council, as it was traditionally been in the past. The BSA Supply Division can still order them for you, in multiples of 25 per community and state strips. A UNIT does not have that authority to make a change on their own. There are two options presently out there for Councils to follow: *ALL MEMBERS of the Council wear the CSP. This is the on that most Councils follow. *ALL MEMBERS OF UNITS wear the either CSP or city and state strips, with ALL District and Council members wearing the CSP. There's not a option for both to be worn, nor for District/Council volunteers to wear the city/state strips. The city and state strips are a thing of Scouting history, Kevin....Scouts and Scouters, in Scouting's earlier days, associated themselves with a community and state; today, Scouts and Scouters associate themselves with the local Council in which they belong. "What about those that served at National (volunteer and professional)?" In 1976, I was appointed to my first "tour" as a National volunteer. I got in the mail, a special National Council CSP which I treasure to this day. I have a scan of the patch on my website. National volunteers and professionals wore the patch until the BSA relocated to the National Office in Irving. That year, a special National Office patch was made available and those national staffers and volunteers wore it instead of the older patch. I like the older patch personally, but the newer one is more colorful. Today, very few Scouters wear it...and the patch is sold at retail over the years in both local Councils and in the BSA catalog. Those few Scouters that are "multiples" in the Direct Service Council get to wear the DSC Council Shoulder Patch, but for the majority of them, they don't wear anything at all (see our Chief Scout Executive's photo in the opening page of the Scout Handbook for proof) other than a position patch. So, at least at the National level, we've come back full-circle on what to wear. Hope this helps, Kevin!! Settummanque! >Personally, I always thought it neat to be able to tell where a scout was >from without asking, merely looking at his shoulder patch. Now one must ask. > >Any other opinions or thoughts? > >Kevin S. Woods >Scoutmaster Troop 111 >Historic District DWC Training Chairperson > (c) 1997 Mike Walton ("no such thing as strong coffee,...") (502) 827-9201 (settummanque, the blackeagle) http://dynasty.net/users/blkeagle 241 Fairview Dr., Henderson, KY 42420-4339 blkeagle@dynasty.net kyblkeagle@aol.com or waltonm@hq.21taacom.army.mil ---- FORWARD in service to youth ----