From Scouts-L@tcu.edu Wed Sep 24 13:10:11 1997 Return-Path: Scouts-L@tcu.edu Received: from outbound.Princeton.EDU (outbound.Princeton.EDU [128.112.128.84]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id NAA16456; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:10:11 -0400 Received: from lightpost by outbound.Princeton.EDU with SMTP id <541671-19916>; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 13:01:53 -0400 Received: from pucc.Princeton.EDU (pucc.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.99]) by outbound.Princeton.EDU (8.8.0/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA24689; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:12:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin MAILER@TCUBVM) by PUCC.PRINCETON.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9349; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 10:09:26 -0400 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 3156; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:12:45 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 2173 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 09:11:59 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 2172; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:12:20 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Wed, 24 Sep 97 01:12:13 CDT Received: from emf.emf.net (emf.emf.net) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01IO03R1GLAO0026A5@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU> for SCOUTS-L@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU; Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:10:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from troop24@localhost) by emf.emf.net (K/K) id XAA23591; Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:10:22 -0700 (PDT) Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <199709240610.XAA23591@emf.emf.net> Date: Tue, 23 Sep 1997 23:10:22 -0700 Reply-To: Alan Houser Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: Alan Houser Subject: Venture and Hazing (Was Hazing -what next) X-To: SCOUTS-L@TCU.EDU, tczim@PACBELL.NET To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: Zimmermann wrote: >Our High Adventure BS Troop used to have a Venture Patrol. Last year we >put together mixed ages of experienced scouts together and disbanded the >Venture Patrol. The reason was that the older boys were being too mean >to the younger boys, not just hazing, but all around brutality. The >feeling was that isolating the older boys contributed to that >situation.... [snip] >Now the older boys want a Venture Patrol again, but the ASM who >originally was instrumental in disbanding it says he may have to pull >out if this happens. He, also, is a great guy and valuable to the >troop. Very few people in the troop know WHY the patrol system was >changed. >When asked, we deduce that what the older boys REALLY want are more high >adventure activities. The Troop plan got derailed b/c of Jack's >untimely death and we are just about now starting to recover as a >troop. We have found the Venture program to be a valuable resource in keeping the older Scouts involved in the program. But we do not have a standing Venture Crew. All of the older Scouts are part of existing patrols and must be active in the regular program to be eligible for Venture Crew. Venture is a reward for helping to train the younger Scouts and for supporting the troop program. Perhaps your ASM can buy into the program if it is not structured as the "older Scout patrol." When they choose a Venture activity, those interested in that activity will plan it and carry it out as an ad hoc Venture Crew. We have some who hate backpacking, but enjoy biking or water, and vice versa. >So, my actual questions are these: > [snip]... What I want to know is, do you do a formal "training" with the >boys re: hazing or just deal with it as it comes up. I see too many >older boys STILL picking on the younger boys. I'm thinking we might >need to define this with consequences at the beginning of each year. >Your thoughts on this. We have not done any training on hazing. We just flat out said, "It will not happen!" You may define the consequences, such as you will not participate in Venture if you are hassling the younger Scouts. Period. >How do we deal with progression and giving each age level the >opportunity to do more challenging things as they go? Do we let the 7th >and 8th graders do the same as the 9-12th graders? Can we have a >Venture patrol and still have the older boys as part of the experienced >scouts patrols? Since you have defined yourself as a high adventure troop already, the program for the older Scouts must be one of degree. Again, we have the older Scouts mixed in patrols with the younger ones (except for the Senior Patrol - which is not a permanent assignment - and the New Scout Patrol) so that the younger Scouts will have the benefit of their experience. >Should they meet seperately during the troop meetings, on another night, >or never? Ours will meet separately, or before or after a regular meeting. Heaven forbid that they should use game time! YiS, Alan R. Houser ** troop24@emf.net ** Scoutmaster, Berkeley, California, Troop 24 ** ** WWW page ** http://www.emf.net/~troop24/t24.html ** Scoutmaster, Mt. Diablo Silverado Council Jamboree Troop #637 ** http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/9637/ **