From <@tcuavm.is.tcu.edu:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Sat Mar 28 18:36:04 1998 Return-Path: <@tcuavm.is.tcu.edu:owner-scouts-l@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU> Received: from tcuavm.is.tcu.edu (TCUAVM.IS.TCU.EDU [138.237.128.148]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA15176 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 18:36:04 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by tcuavm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 3848; Sat, 28 Mar 98 17:28:00 CDT Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5613; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:27:23 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 5529 for SCOUTS-L@TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:26:22 -0500 Received: from TCUBVM (NJE origin SMTP@TCUBVM) by TCUBVM.IS.TCU.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 5528; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:22:19 -0500 Received: from ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU by tcubvm.is.tcu.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP; Sat, 28 Mar 98 17:22:07 CDT Received: from mx1.dynasty.net (mx1.dynasty.net) by ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #20456) id <01IV7HJU3IQO00E0XX@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU> for scouts-l@ALPHA.IS.TCU.EDU; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:20:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: from jessica ([208.205.50.127]) by mx1.Dynasty.Net (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAH156 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:20:33 -0600 X-Sender: blkeagle@mail.dynasty.net MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980328232102.009884f4@mail.dynasty.net> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 17:21:02 -0600 Reply-To: "settummanque, or blackeagle (Mike Walton)" Sender: Scouts-L Youth Group List From: "settummanque, or blackeagle (Mike Walton)" Subject: Re: Eagle question X-To: scouts-l@tcu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Status: RO X-Status: Sharon asked a question that frequently comes up and which I have one of those "stock responses" for, since I get this question asked personally: >I thought for sure I read on this list that you can wear your eagle >recognition on your military uniform. Somehow I thought it was a ribbon. Since the BSA was organized, there has been a close connection between it and the military of this nation. The military regarded Scouts and especially those higher-ranking Scouts, as potential leaders of their units and later on, commands. Many military officers have commented that they feel the "tie-breaker" between getting the next rank or a commendation was the fact that somewhere in their military records, the ones which get reviewed frequently, is a copy of their Eagle Scout or Quartermaster or Ranger or Ace or other award card. Scouting regarded military officers and senior non-commissioned officers ('sergeants" and "petty officers") as ideal leaders to coach youth leaders as Scoutmasters, as Commissioners due to their high degree of organization, logistics and "getting things done", and even as professional members. It was said frequently that those with a Scouting background could "leave the Army one day and enter professional Scouting the very next". The BSA until 1973 allowed those former and present miltary Scouters the opportunity to wear ONE (and it's usually the highest) military decoration on the BSA's uniforms, and informally to wear the bar ribbon representing this award on their uniforms as well. In 1974, after soliciting input from Scouters in the field as well as from military personnel whom were Scouters, the BSA stopped this practice and eventually this reached the field a couple of years later. Many military colleges and schools allow Eagle Scouts to wear a special red, white and blue ribbon on their military uniforms and formally to wear the Eagle Scout medal during military balls and other serious events. But the US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, and the Coast Guard do NOT allow the wearing of the Eagle Scout Badge as a part of the uniforms of their services nor do they allow the red, white, and blue ribbon (since such a ribbon is already in usage as the Phillipine War-era ribbon) to be worn. The decoration for the Phillipine War participation has a gold frame around it, which distinguishes it. Thanks to Secretary of the Army Togo West, Jr. and SGM Daniel Coberly, there are some studies circulating around the Pentagon as of 1995 and early 1996, which would establish a ribbon for holders of the Eagle Scout Badge, the Girl Scouting Gold Award, and other similar national-level awards. Until that is approved within the Army (and it's the only service I am aware of that has even considered this), Scouts and Scouters may NOT wear the Eagle Scout Badge on their uniforms with TWO notable exceptions: The first one covers the actual presentation of the award (and this goes for any other BSA or other program's awards as well) to members of the military. The award may be presented/pinned/attached to the military unifom during appropriate ceremonies and be worn during the duration of the ceremony and any reception or followup ceremonies. This covers members of the military, for instance, who receive service awards or personal achievement awards from national organizations. Afterwards, the award may no longer be worn in connection with the military uniform. The second exception covers members of the military whom are detailed or attached to civilian organizations during a national or regional event (regional is defined to include state or part of a state, which for BSA and GSUSA folks, would encompass a Council or Service Area). They are permitted to wear ONE such civilian identification, recognition or service-type award as long as wearing such award or identification does not interfere with wearing military uniforms, accessories (like a protective mask or a weapon), or which would tend to cast a negative light upon the military service or the program they are being detailed to work or provide services for. This covers, for instance, military personnel working as part of a national meeting of the Reserve Officers Association or the Assocation of the United States Army, for instance, as well as those that work at the National Scout Jamboree or a Girl Scout Wider Adventure. For the Army, those exceptions are covered in Army Regulation (AR) 672-5, which covers awards and decorations of the United States Army. Without looking, I can assume that if the Army has those two exceptions, that the other services, as well as the Coast Guard, have those same exceptions as well. Those attaining Eagle Scout or the Girl Scout equilivent MAY (it is not guaranteed and subject to Service policies) be advanced to the grade of E-3 upon completion of basic military training. Entrants come into to the services at the paygrade of E-1 and may be advanced during training to E-2. Normally, it takes anywhere from a half year to two years for advancement between E-2 and E-3. In order for this to be accomphished, entrants must present their card and certificate to their service recriuter at the time that other documentation is provided (birth certificate, marrage licenses, school transcripts, etc.) and it is the ENTRANTS' responsibility to insure that "Eagle Scout" and the date and location of the award be annotated on the enlistment contract. Those already in the service and desire to place their Eagle Scout or Gold Award certification in their records may do so by going to their local personnel offices and providing photocopies of the award card and/or certificate. While not listed within the military's personnel records policies, there has seldom been a denial of those items being sent to be microfilmed or place on CD as part of the servicememebers' official military record. Frequently, flag officers (Generals and Admirals) will request by name an "Eagle Scout or equal" to serve as aide-de-camp (that's how I got to be one!), as escort officers, or as special project officers for high-visibility events or projects. Those on their staffs will contact personnel officers, and just like if they were trying to find a person with a given military speciality, they will request a screening for "Eagle Scouts". If your record has such an "marked entry", then it will be tagged and you may find yourself working someplace in a high-vis role. (of coruse, if you don't want to do such roles, then don't have "Eagle Scout" or "Gold Girl Scout" entered on your records!!) Finally, someone always ask "isn't it a bit unfair that the military gives all of this stuff to Eagle Scouts, but don't do the same for Girl Scouting equals?" This is a question I am glad to answer. Major General Mary C. Clarke is a First Class Girl Scout and credits her Girl Scouting experiences and the attainment of First Class as a positive experience as an officer and as a person. She seeks out as personal aides females whom have attained the First Class or now Gold Girl Scout Award as well as males whom are Eagle Scouts. She currently serves as the Commanding General of the Army's Combined Service Support Center at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. She was formerly the Deputy Commanding General of the 21st Theater Army Area Command in Europe and served as the first female commander of a Corps Support Group in Europe. Additionally, there are several Lieutenant Colonels and Colonels whom have commanded military brigades (upwards of 5000 military personnel) whom credit their Girl Scouting experiences as an important steppingstone toward their eventual appointment as officers and later as selectees to command large numbers of American soldiers. Truly, earning the highest youth honor within a program DOES mean more than just a shiny pin or medal to wear formally. It does open doors IF the person holding the award treats it as a honor given to them by others AND if he or she continues to exhibit strong paths of service to others, leadership and followship, and principled living. Hope this answers your question and thanks for asking!! Settummanque! (c) 1997 Mike Walton ("no such thing as strong coffee,...") (502) 827-9201 (settummanque, the blackeagle) http://dynasty.net/users/blkeagle 241 Fairview Dr., Henderson, KY 42420-4339 blkeagle@dynasty.net kyblkeagle@aol.com or waltonm@hq.21taacom.army.mil ---- FORWARD in service to youth ----