From NeilLup@aol.com Sat Mar 28 11:36:14 1998 Return-Path: NeilLup@aol.com Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id LAA00833 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:36:14 -0500 Received: from NeilLup@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (IMOv13.ems) id JSOPa08005 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:27:58 -0500 (EST) From: NeilLup Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 11:27:58 EST To: mfbowman@CAPACCESS.ORG Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Re: Council Exec Uniform Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 82 Status: RO X-Status: A This is extraordinarily well written, Mike. Well done! Neil From skovgard@public1.guangzhou.gd.cn Sat Mar 28 00:53:45 1998 Return-Path: skovgard@public1.guangzhou.gd.cn Received: from public1.guangzhou.gd.cn (public1.gz.gd.cn [202.96.128.111]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id AAA18252 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 00:53:45 -0500 Received: from max3-52.guangzhou.gd.cn (max3-52.guangzhou.gd.cn [202.96.185.52]) by public1.guangzhou.gd.cn (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA14227 for ; Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:44:00 +0900 (CDT) X-Authentication-Warning: public1.guangzhou.gd.cn: max3-52.guangzhou.gd.cn [202.96.185.52] didn't use HELO protocol Message-ID: <351C8D42.36DE@public.guangzhou.gd.cn> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 13:40:18 +0800 From: Steve & Terry Skovgard Reply-To: skovgard@public1.guangzhou.gd.cn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael F. Bowman" Subject: Re: Request lists References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A Mike: Thanks for the great site info! I'm always looking for good resources! Terry Skovgard Webelos Leader Pack 3905 in China Michael F. Bowman wrote: > > Henry, > > Please stop by http://members.aol.com/netcommish and click on the > NetResources button. You'll get a listing of several dozen discussion From c60clg1@corn.cso.niu.edu Tue Mar 31 19:46:40 1998 Return-Path: c60clg1@corn.cso.niu.edu Received: from corn.cso.niu.edu (corn.cso.niu.edu [131.156.52.6]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA23122 for ; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:46:40 -0500 Received: by corn.cso.niu.edu id AA20107 (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for "Michael F. Bowman" ); Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:38:53 -0600 Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:38:52 -0600 (CST) From: golden cliff Subject: Re: Scouting & School Facilities To: "Michael F. Bowman" In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: DA Michael, As always, you have excellent insights. I totally agree with your arguments and echo your thoughts. I don't know if they are close to any situation requiring a decision, just my friend's gut feeling that some board members were asking him the wrong type of questions about Scouting and their use of schools. The chair of the board is a prominent attorney in the community. Whether that is a help or a hindrance, we will soon know the answer. Thank you for your thoughts, I will forward them to my friend. YIS, Cliff Golden On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Michael F. Bowman wrote: > Cliff wrote: > > >One of our veteran Scout leaders is also on the local school board. He says > >there is a sense among many board members that no groups practicing > >descrimination should be allowed to use school property. > > Maybe the key thing to do is to turn the argument around. If the school > board discriminates on who can use a public facility based on their > exercise of a constitutional right of free assembly, then the school > board is also discriminating and should not be allowed to use school > property if we follow the argument to its logical extreme. > > We all discriminate when we make choices based on the attributes of an > idea, thing, or whatever. The real question is whether the > discrimination or choice-making has been prohibited by law that is > consistent with the Constitution. And this is something that the Courts > are struggling with now in the cases involving BSA. > > School Boards are also struggling with how to regulate the use of public > properties. Many are deciding to restrict all activities on campus to > those organizations that are part of the school's curriculum. These > school systems have reached the conclusion that you either close out > everything or let any group use the facility that is willing to pay a > reasonable fee for janitorial services or the like. I think that they > have come to the right conclusion; e.g., you either have a closed campus > or you allow the facilities to be used without any restriction. > > Of course we are not really excited about having the facilities be > closed, so why keep them open? > > There are a host of argument one could make that the property is owned by > the public and should be available to the public under the Constitutional > guarantee of a right to assemble in much the same manner that streets are > given over to parades, marches, demonstrations and the like. > > Legal arguments are one thing, but legal arguments alone are not enough > to really persuade. I think that to succeed you have to touch the hearts > of the folks that have the power to make decisions. > > Every community has to be aware that youth that do not have strong > associations with something that helps them shape values are much more > likely to end up in trouble whether it is drugs, violence, or other > crimes. We also know that youth that participate in Scouting tend to be > less likely to fall into these problems. And at the same time we also > know that the citizenship and character building that goes along with > Scoutings methods helps these boys to perform better in School, makes > them more likely to reach higher achievements in life, and more apt to > help others do the same. > > Does the School Board understand that when it reacts from fear, perhaps > misunderstanding, that the choice it is about to make may well increase > the number of problems it faces in terms of youth that do not develop in > citizenship or character having been denied an opportunity to do so? Do > they understand that Scouting is trying to further many of the same > goals? > > And why the Congressional Charter? Congress early on recognized the > educational contributions of Scouting that complimented those of > traditional education. Is the School Board willing to dismiss these > contributions and the potential that Scouting offers youth? > > Cliff, I don't know whether these ramblings are a help, but nonetheless > hope that they will at least help generate some more ideas as we > brainstorm how to handle situations like the one you face - one that more > and more of us could easily face soon. > > Mike > > Speaking in | mfbowman@usscouts.org netcommish@aol.com > the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish > Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ > Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org > >