From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sun Jan 25 03:25:27 1998 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:25:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Multiple Recipients of the List SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Totin' Chip Pocket Flap? In-Reply-To: <34C6324B.91963E27@Alum.WPI.Edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: A lot of discussion seems to have been generated by this one. And if I recall we got of lot of discussion back in Jun 94 on this too. It seems that this is another area where BSA's choice of language allows interpretation depending on which side of the fence your view may come from. The National Capital Area Council's (National) Scout Shop has for years stocked both Tote'n'Chip & Firem'n Chit Patches. In '94 I purchased some and found they all had stock numbers. Surprise! I asked about this and also why some of the Tote'n'Chip patches had red borders and others had white borders. I was informed that the company that made these patches on contract to BSA (yes that's right BSA ordered them) had made a mistake and the white bordered ones were being sold anyway because of collecter interest. The do have the fleur-de-les as well, which of course must be with BSA permission. As far as I am concerned that pretty well makes these patches official BSA issue. As far as patch placement is concerned I'll have to respectfully disagree with the idea that these patches can only be worn as a temporary patch. The Insignia Guide does not state anywhere that the right pocket flap is reservered exclusively for OA patches. What it does say is that lodge flap patches are worn on the right pocket flap. Now why is that? A little history may be in order. When the first flap patches were issued to encourage the goals of OA, OA did not exist in every Council. Many Councils had their own brands of honor camper organizations, including Firecrafter in over a dozen Councils and the Tribe of Mic-O-Say for example. Firecrafter developed its own flap patches and members wore them on the right pocket flap. The situation then was that BSA went with a policy that the right pocket flap could be used for activities promoting Scout camping allowing Scout Executives to decide what went. I suspect that the language we see today is a holdover from this time period. Because of this, it is within reason for a Scout Executive to determine that allowing Scouts to wear this patch on the right flap is "in harmony with national policies" which is the key test in the Insignia Guide. In most places in the United States the only patch you'll see on the right pocket flap is an OA flap patch. And sure there a number of OA folks that feel pretty strongly that it ought to be a location reserved for their insignia. However, BSA has yet to rewrite its language and I suspect has determined it best to leave room for discretion. As a side note on patch history: Firecrafter flap patches were discontinued when the remaining Firecrafter Councils were merged with Councils that had OA. If you would like to see some of these very rare and unusual flap patches, take a look at http://usscouts.org/profbvr/firecrafter/embers.html This web page is part of a website I'm developing on the history of the Firecrafer organization. The website is not yet complete, but you can see other Firecrafter patches and insignia by going to: http://usscouts.org/profbvr/firecrafter/ Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/ From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sun Jan 25 03:28:40 1998 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:28:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Michael Crothers cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Woodbadge List In-Reply-To: <34C32453.4243100@cyber.net.pk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Mike, You can find out about the Woodbadge List and several dozen other Scouting related lists by visiting the NetResources area of The NetCommish website at http://members.aol.com/netcommish - the list is growing and I'll be adding a few new ones in the next couple of days. Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/ From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sun Jan 25 18:14:12 1998 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:14:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Multiple Recipients of the List SCOUTS-L Subject: No Politics Please In-Reply-To: <34CBA7BC.B2CC9A19@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Fellow Scouters, A new thread has started that if anything should cause us to question our intentions before further responding. Randy related a bit of e-mail he received in conjunction with his excellent BSA history website. Randy can advise the upset Granny that he in fact is not BSA and does not determine their policies, providing her the address of BSA's National Office, where she can write if she elects to do so. The big question is what motive do we have in discussing the issue. This is an explosive issue that by its nature tends to bring out strong feelings and an urge to let loose. May I encourage all who would desire to respond to first consider the Scout Law and to ask whether an additional comment would do anything to futher the program we deliver to the Scouts. If the comment you'd like to make is in the nature of personal feeling, anger, frustration, etc., perhaps it would be better to hold off. Baden-Powell in his great wisdom was determined to be as apolitical as possible for very good reason - he couldn't afford to have membersof the movement at each other's throats over issues not related to the purpose of the movement, nor did he want to have the movement linked in any way to the fortunes of any political organization. While there may be room to wonder about the theoretical question of whether an honoree of BSA should have the honor removed, if he/she later is founded to have engaged in dishonorable conduct, we must be careful to to be speedy to reach conclusions or make judgments about specific individuals or to engage in political mudslinging. Please exercise care if you join your voice in this thread and remember that the other folks that are listening are your brother and sister Scouters, folks who are your friends even when differing views are held. Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/ From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sun Jan 25 21:01:28 1998 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:01:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Multiple Recipients of the List SCOUTS-L cc: NCAC BSA , GWD@CapAccess.org Subject: New Websites Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: It is my pleasure to announce the opening of a set of new websites on a variety of Scouting topics. Commissioners: Scouting in Rural Areas http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/rural_scouting/index.html Cub Scouting: Activity Guide http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/cub_activities/index.html Cub Scouting and The Jungle Book http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/jungle_book/index.html Cub Scouting: Pack Administration and inance http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/pack_admin/index.html Cub Scouting: Pack Meetings http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/pack_meetings/index.html Fun Awards http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/fun_awards/index.html Ethics http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/ethics/index.html Lightning Safety http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/lightning_safety/index.html Parent Involvement http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/parent_involvement/index.html Relief of Mafeking Campout http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/relief_of_mafeking/index.html Scout and Guide Museums http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/scouting_museums/index.html Scouter's Reference Room http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/reference_room/index.html Scouts in Fiction http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/scoutfiction/index.html Scouts on Tour http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/scouts_on_tour/index.html Suicide Awareness http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/suicide/index.html Training Quotations http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/training_quotes/index.html Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/ From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Mon Jan 26 01:20:32 1998 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:20:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Linda Heinz cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: District Committee Say-So In-Reply-To: <199801211434.IAA08246@mailhub.cns.ksu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Linda, I took a look at BSA's "Standard Local Council Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws" and see no reference to minutes of meetings period. In each instance where descriptions of the conduct of meetings are provided; e.g., Council Executive Committee and District Committee, the articles provide that reports will be received, which usually signals that a meeting is being conducted along the lines in Robert's Rules of Order where minutes are kept, reports given, etc. In practice I suspect you'll find that most Districts do not keep minutes, because it is burdensome to do so and takes valuable time for a reading at a meeting when much needs to be done. Sounds to me like some decisions have been made and that the decision makers do not want to have to explain or discuss what they've done. In most cases this will lead to suspicion and bad feeling. Would be better for them to just spit out what's going on and deal with it. But most folks are adverse to confrontation and this may be how they are coping whether it is really a good way or not. May be the time for some fairly frank questions about whether they want you to continue and others or they've decided to clean house. Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/ From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Tue Jan 27 02:38:51 1998 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:38:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: BAILEYGJ Subject: Re: Craftstrip (Gimp) Supplies In-Reply-To: <12d26573.34cb39eb@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Joy and Jeff, Welcome to the National Capital Area Council. And thanks for being willing to volunteer. Your help could not have come at a more crucial juncture. We are in the process of dividing up two oversized districts into seven to allow for better service for the long haul. I handle Commissioner Training for one of the two, where you live. I would like very much to talk to you about training and other possibilities. You asked about a source for gimp supplies. There are a couple of good possibilities. Tandy has a store in Springfield just off of Backlick Road (turn right after passing Roy Rogers headed North). It has been awhile since I was there, so I presume they're still there. Second is a little farther away. If you take the Beltway and head westbound and then get on I-66 West, you can get off at the first exit and take Nutley Street Northbound for about four blocks to the largest craft store in the area which also happens to be next to MicroCenter the largest computer store around here. The name of the store escapes me - late hour, but you can't miss it. The thing is the size of a K-mart. The name of the shopping center is Pan-Am Shopping Center. Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/