From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Thu Mar 26 21:29:34 1998 Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:29:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Henry Sanschagrin cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Request lists In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.19980320210627.2be7227a@mailhost.ncia.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Henry, Please stop by http://members.aol.com/netcommish and click on the NetResources button. You'll get a listing of several dozen discussion lists and forums related to Scouting along with links to nearly 3000 Scouting websites. Mike Speaking in | mfbowman@usscouts.org netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Thu Mar 26 21:43:12 1998 Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:43:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: "Kevin S. Woods" cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Camping Merit Badge In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980326113229.006a6760@christa.unh.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Kevin, Don't worry too much about having the right kind of gear for a 1.5 mile first time hike. This requirement is designed to be a learning experience not a seasoned veteran's performance with all the best in backpacking technology (nothing wrong with it, if you have it of course). Here the goal is simply to learn how to pack enough gear to spend a night and be able to carry it a relatively short distance. I can remember countless Scouts doing this by figuring out that they could live with a change of underware, a groundcloth, light tent or shelter half, and only those cooking items needed for the overnight menu. Many times Scouts brought a large coffee can to boil water in and figured out meals that could be cooked in the can. They also learned that you could pack a few things in the can, so that cooking gear didn't need to take up much space. Many camps have a quartermaster's store where things like cooking gear, trail shelter halves, rope and the like can be borrowed. About all the boys need is a pack and for this one it can be as simple as one of the old Yucca packs, if needs be. Obviously this isn't elegance in backpacking. It is more of a first basics approach to learning just what to take (and what not to take) and get used to hauling the gear. Once they get a taste for it, they can start looking around for better gear and work on earning the money for it, if necessary. Mike Speaking in | mfbowman@usscouts.org netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Thu Mar 26 22:38:22 1998 Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 22:38:21 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Ken Segota cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Scout Letter head In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: My thanks to Ken for suggesting a place to find the Letterhead image that Ron was trying to replace. You can now download a copy of this image in its full letter size version from http://usscouts.org/freebies2.html along with a higher resolution jpg version (165k) and the orignial scan from the handbook (198k). I found the same image in the 1935 handbook and cleaned it up a bit, enhanced it some, and reduced it to black and white for better printing quality. You can see the image at the website. To download the image (55k) right click on it and save it to your hard drive. Mike Speaking in | mfbowman@usscouts.org netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Fri Mar 27 00:23:32 1998 Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 00:23:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Steve & Terry Skovgard cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: "humanistic" believer scout In-Reply-To: <3519CFE2.487@public.guangzhou.gd.cn> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Terry, You have already taken the first step in resolving your dilemna by asking to learn more about the situation with your Cub. The assertion of his parents that they are humanistics could mean many things. And you have done well to avoid jumping to any conclusions just yet. What is a humanistic? Tough question and answered differently by many commentators. As far as I can tell the term covers a range of beliefs. An example of one group of humanistics is the Society for Humanistic Judaism http://www.shj.org/believe.html which believes in freedom from supernatural authority. I've seen a few essays on humanistic belief tied into Chinese Buddhaism as well from a German University dissertation. And Scouting certainly does acknowledge Buddhaism (note the religious emblem for Buddhaists.) A lot will depend on what the family in this case believes and especially what the Cub believes. They may well have a set of religious beliefs that are not well articulated and may believe in something outside of themselves or they may believe that there is nothing outside of themselves. You should consult with your nearest professional staff member on this as well (even if you have to do so by mail). This touches on a membership standard that is hard to define well; e.g., having a religious belief. It may be that what you hear from the family is sufficient or it may be that you have a Scout who is unable to meet the membership requirements. This consultation is important as a result. You may also want to be aware of BSA's 1991 resolution on this: Resolution of The National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America "Be it resolved that the following reaffirmation of the position of the Boy Scouts of America relating to duty to God be, and hereby is, enacted and that the bylaws, rules and regulations, and literature of the Corporation reflect this reaffirmation accordingly. "In 1985, America celebrated the 75th anniversary of the Boy Scouts of America. Since 1910, 80 million Americans have subscribed to the Scout Oath and the Scout Law, which have stood the test of time. "The National Executive Board of the BSA proudly states, through its mission statement, that the values which the organization strives to instill in young people are those based upon the Scout Oath and Scout Law. A Scout pledges: 'On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law...'. "The first BSA HANDBOOK FOR BOYS, published in August 1911, declares that '...no boy can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God' (page 215). "The latest edition of the BOY SCOUT HANDBOOK, published in 1990, reads: 'A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others' (page 561). "While not intending to define what constitutes belief in God, the BSA is proud to reaffirm the Scout Oath and its declaration of duty to God. "The following statements are additional information on the BSA position: "The BSA has always been committed to the moral, ethical, and spiritual development of our youth. Scouting is not a religion but duty to God is a basic tenant of the Scout Oath and Law. "Scouting does not seek to impose its beliefs upon others who do not share them. Virtually every religion is represented in Scouting, and the BSA does not define or interpret God. That is the role of the Scout's family and religious advisors. "Scouting respects those who do not share its beliefs and it would not ask others to alter their faith in any fashion in order to become Scouts. They too are free to follow their own beliefs. Rather the BSA membership believes that the principles set forth in the Scout Oath and Law are central to the BSA goal of teaching the values of self-reliance, courage, integrity, and consideration to others. Scouting may not be for everyone, but for eight decades, Scouting has provided meaningful programs and adventure to more than eighty million young people in the United States." ---Approved, BSA National Executive Board, June 12, 1991 Mike Speaking in | mfbowman@usscouts.org netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Fri Mar 27 21:39:40 1998 Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:39:39 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Frank Porter cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Council Exec Uniform In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980327125641.39cf3a42@mail.infoave.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Frank, Your Council's Scout Executive is the single most visiable representative of the Boy Scouts of America in your area and holds a complex and demanding job similar to that of a corporate executive officer who is responsible to a board of directors (Council Executive Committee). To do his/her job the Scout Executive must become a real figure in the community meeting with community leaders, working with volunteers, managing budgets, running an office, and supervising employee. I'll get back to this in a minute, but first lets go back more than 75 years. In the early days of Scouting Scout Executives were recruited from local communities to build the Scouting program (at a time when most adults knew very little about Scouting). Most of these men were hired away from recreational jobs. Some of the more successful ones began building Scout Camps in the later part of Scouting's first decade. These camps usually featured a central camping area for all boys (no Troop camping) and program areas run by the Council Staff with the Scout Executive serving as Camp Director. In those days the Scout Executive was mostly in uniform as a program builder working closely with volunteers at the community level in Schools and Churches, etc. His uniform was also a military style suit with a tie allowing him to be able to be both in the field and in meetings in an attire that was acceptable to all present for the most part. By the end of World War II, Scout Camps were shifting to Troop campsite focused outdoors experiences with more reliance on Scoutmasters running the program. More training was becoming available; e.g., the growth of Wood Badge training after WWII. In the next decades much of the program part of Scouting moved from professional Scouters to volunteers. The role of professional Scouter shifted to become more of a resource manager. And it was during the 60s and 70s that we saw BSA consolidating resources to try to stay afloat merging smaller Councils into larger ones, building larger Council camps and closing smaller camps. During these changing time the uniform was also evolving away from the early military uniform styles that had been popular in the early years. The most dramatic change was the shift away from a formal professional uniform to the standard field uniform that volunteers wear. These changes in circumstances have had a direct impact on the attire most appropriate for a Scout Executive. Instead of a simple choice of wearing a professional uniform, the Scout Executive must dip into his clothes closet and carefully pick the attire best suited to the purpose he is going to be serving during the day. So also with his staff. If he is going to be giving a talk to a local civic group or having a business lunch, he needs to be dressed in attire that is acceptable to his audience, clothes that will allow him to have the most impact. In other words to be accepted into the various business communities in an area he is going to have to dress the part. Coming to a meeting in an executive board room in Scout shorts and knee socks will not cut a lot of ice in many places and may well serve for some good humor, but little support. In other situations he will need to be the visiable leader that volunteers and Scouts see at camporees, camps and other Scout events. For this he'll want to be in uniform. If he's hosting a fundraiser golf tournament he may well be wearing a Scout polo shirt and the same windbreaker that particpants are given as a token of appreciation for the $xxx.xx fee for being in the charity event. I guess the answer is that it depends on the situation as to what the Scout Executive should be wearing and most often he is in the best position to guage what is needed. Many of these fellows pack a uniform and a suit wherever they go and not infrequently make quick changes to suit the situation. Early I mentioned the professionals often wore uniforms in the early days at the community level. This is now more often the role of your District professional. And you will see them in uniform often. In fact I would say that over the last several years I've seen professional staff in uniform more often than not, because at Scouting activities they've dressed for the event. All of this by way of saying that the attire of a professional Scouter is something that most of us would not have to deal with. We wouldn't want to have to walk in those moccasins. Our role is a bit more simple. We simply don the uniform and carry on. My advice would be not to feel to judgmental about whether a Scout Executive is in uniform or in some other attire. Without knowing all the circumstances and all the considerations we are apt to judge wrongly and do nothing that improves Scouting. If the folks in your neck of the woods feel that they would like to see a bit more of the uniform, talk with your professionals and let them know your feelings in a friendly way. Most of these folks are pretty sensitive to the people they work with and serve. Sometimes we don't always realize it because it seems that we are so far removed from the headquarters. Mike Speaking in | mfbowman@usscouts.org netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Fri Mar 27 23:56:02 1998 Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 23:56:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: golden cliff cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Scouting & School Facilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Cliff wrote: >One of our veteran Scout leaders is also on the local school board. He says >there is a sense among many board members that no groups practicing >descrimination should be allowed to use school property. Maybe the key thing to do is to turn the argument around. If the school board discriminates on who can use a public facility based on their exercise of a constitutional right of free assembly, then the school board is also discriminating and should not be allowed to use school property if we follow the argument to its logical extreme. We all discriminate when we make choices based on the attributes of an idea, thing, or whatever. The real question is whether the discrimination or choice-making has been prohibited by law that is consistent with the Constitution. And this is something that the Courts are struggling with now in the cases involving BSA. School Boards are also struggling with how to regulate the use of public properties. Many are deciding to restrict all activities on campus to those organizations that are part of the school's curriculum. These school systems have reached the conclusion that you either close out everything or let any group use the facility that is willing to pay a reasonable fee for janitorial services or the like. I think that they have come to the right conclusion; e.g., you either have a closed campus or you allow the facilities to be used without any restriction. Of course we are not really excited about having the facilities be closed, so why keep them open? There are a host of argument one could make that the property is owned by the public and should be available to the public under the Constitutional guarantee of a right to assemble in much the same manner that streets are given over to parades, marches, demonstrations and the like. Legal arguments are one thing, but legal arguments alone are not enough to really persuade. I think that to succeed you have to touch the hearts of the folks that have the power to make decisions. Every community has to be aware that youth that do not have strong associations with something that helps them shape values are much more likely to end up in trouble whether it is drugs, violence, or other crimes. We also know that youth that participate in Scouting tend to be less likely to fall into these problems. And at the same time we also know that the citizenship and character building that goes along with Scoutings methods helps these boys to perform better in School, makes them more likely to reach higher achievements in life, and more apt to help others do the same. Does the School Board understand that when it reacts from fear, perhaps misunderstanding, that the choice it is about to make may well increase the number of problems it faces in terms of youth that do not develop in citizenship or character having been denied an opportunity to do so? Do they understand that Scouting is trying to further many of the same goals? And why the Congressional Charter? Congress early on recognized the educational contributions of Scouting that complimented those of traditional education. Is the School Board willing to dismiss these contributions and the potential that Scouting offers youth? Cliff, I don't know whether these ramblings are a help, but nonetheless hope that they will at least help generate some more ideas as we brainstorm how to handle situations like the one you face - one that more and more of us could easily face soon. Mike Speaking in | mfbowman@usscouts.org netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sat Apr 4 22:50:39 1998 Status: O X-Status: Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 22:50:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: mfbowman@usscouts.org Subject: INTRO And Other Things (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Speaking in | mfbowman@usscouts.org netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 10:25:34 EST From: DJ21069 To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: INTRO And Other Things Hello All.. I Am David Nguyen Of Lowwapaneu Lodge 191(NE Pennsylvania Council). I am an Eagle Scout. I Have Attended Th eNAtion la Jamboree and Am Goin To attend NOAC THis Summer.. Well Anyways I alwys like to redo my web page..so put some constructive criticism in the guestbook when u are about to sign it. please visit it often there are always changes..I Am Also An Avid Patch Trader But I Am Mostly looking for 97 JSP's Thank You, David Nguyen Eagle Scout Troop 16 HomPage From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sat Apr 4 22:57:31 1998 Status: O X-Status: Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 22:57:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Jim Feuerbach Subject: Re: lurker, old scouter, new SM In-Reply-To: <199804031544.AA27761@gate1.health.state.ny.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Jim, Welcome to Scouts-L. Hope that you enjoy and contribute to the discussions. Sounds like you'll need to gradually nudge and coach the older boys into taking on more of a role, perhaps even challenging them with the enticement of a special older guys activity or two, if they can put it together. Mike Speaking in | mfbowman@usscouts.org netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sat Apr 4 23:18:19 1998 Status: O X-Status: Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 23:18:18 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Robert Losee Subject: Re: B-P Patrols In-Reply-To: <35255A99.2C835462@unlinfo.unl.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Bob, Congratulations brother beaver on getting your beads. Be careful, they tend to be a good deal heavier than they look. ;-) Mike Speaking in | mfbowman@usscouts.org netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org