From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sun Jan 25 03:25:27 1998 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:25:26 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Multiple Recipients of the List SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Totin' Chip Pocket Flap? In-Reply-To: <34C6324B.91963E27@Alum.WPI.Edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: A lot of discussion seems to have been generated by this one. And if I recall we got of lot of discussion back in Jun 94 on this too. It seems that this is another area where BSA's choice of language allows interpretation depending on which side of the fence your view may come from. The National Capital Area Council's (National) Scout Shop has for years stocked both Tote'n'Chip & Firem'n Chit Patches. In '94 I purchased some and found they all had stock numbers. Surprise! I asked about this and also why some of the Tote'n'Chip patches had red borders and others had white borders. I was informed that the company that made these patches on contract to BSA (yes that's right BSA ordered them) had made a mistake and the white bordered ones were being sold anyway because of collecter interest. The do have the fleur-de-les as well, which of course must be with BSA permission. As far as I am concerned that pretty well makes these patches official BSA issue. As far as patch placement is concerned I'll have to respectfully disagree with the idea that these patches can only be worn as a temporary patch. The Insignia Guide does not state anywhere that the right pocket flap is reservered exclusively for OA patches. What it does say is that lodge flap patches are worn on the right pocket flap. Now why is that? A little history may be in order. When the first flap patches were issued to encourage the goals of OA, OA did not exist in every Council. Many Councils had their own brands of honor camper organizations, including Firecrafter in over a dozen Councils and the Tribe of Mic-O-Say for example. Firecrafter developed its own flap patches and members wore them on the right pocket flap. The situation then was that BSA went with a policy that the right pocket flap could be used for activities promoting Scout camping allowing Scout Executives to decide what went. I suspect that the language we see today is a holdover from this time period. Because of this, it is within reason for a Scout Executive to determine that allowing Scouts to wear this patch on the right flap is "in harmony with national policies" which is the key test in the Insignia Guide. In most places in the United States the only patch you'll see on the right pocket flap is an OA flap patch. And sure there a number of OA folks that feel pretty strongly that it ought to be a location reserved for their insignia. However, BSA has yet to rewrite its language and I suspect has determined it best to leave room for discretion. As a side note on patch history: Firecrafter flap patches were discontinued when the remaining Firecrafter Councils were merged with Councils that had OA. If you would like to see some of these very rare and unusual flap patches, take a look at http://usscouts.org/profbvr/firecrafter/embers.html This web page is part of a website I'm developing on the history of the Firecrafer organization. The website is not yet complete, but you can see other Firecrafter patches and insignia by going to: http://usscouts.org/profbvr/firecrafter/ Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/ From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sun Jan 25 03:28:40 1998 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 03:28:38 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Michael Crothers cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: Woodbadge List In-Reply-To: <34C32453.4243100@cyber.net.pk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Mike, You can find out about the Woodbadge List and several dozen other Scouting related lists by visiting the NetResources area of The NetCommish website at http://members.aol.com/netcommish - the list is growing and I'll be adding a few new ones in the next couple of days. Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/ From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sun Jan 25 18:14:12 1998 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:14:11 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Multiple Recipients of the List SCOUTS-L Subject: No Politics Please In-Reply-To: <34CBA7BC.B2CC9A19@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Fellow Scouters, A new thread has started that if anything should cause us to question our intentions before further responding. Randy related a bit of e-mail he received in conjunction with his excellent BSA history website. Randy can advise the upset Granny that he in fact is not BSA and does not determine their policies, providing her the address of BSA's National Office, where she can write if she elects to do so. The big question is what motive do we have in discussing the issue. This is an explosive issue that by its nature tends to bring out strong feelings and an urge to let loose. May I encourage all who would desire to respond to first consider the Scout Law and to ask whether an additional comment would do anything to futher the program we deliver to the Scouts. If the comment you'd like to make is in the nature of personal feeling, anger, frustration, etc., perhaps it would be better to hold off. Baden-Powell in his great wisdom was determined to be as apolitical as possible for very good reason - he couldn't afford to have membersof the movement at each other's throats over issues not related to the purpose of the movement, nor did he want to have the movement linked in any way to the fortunes of any political organization. While there may be room to wonder about the theoretical question of whether an honoree of BSA should have the honor removed, if he/she later is founded to have engaged in dishonorable conduct, we must be careful to to be speedy to reach conclusions or make judgments about specific individuals or to engage in political mudslinging. Please exercise care if you join your voice in this thread and remember that the other folks that are listening are your brother and sister Scouters, folks who are your friends even when differing views are held. Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/ From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Sun Jan 25 21:01:28 1998 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:01:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Multiple Recipients of the List SCOUTS-L cc: NCAC BSA , GWD@CapAccess.org Subject: New Websites Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: It is my pleasure to announce the opening of a set of new websites on a variety of Scouting topics. Commissioners: Scouting in Rural Areas http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/rural_scouting/index.html Cub Scouting: Activity Guide http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/cub_activities/index.html Cub Scouting and The Jungle Book http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/jungle_book/index.html Cub Scouting: Pack Administration and inance http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/pack_admin/index.html Cub Scouting: Pack Meetings http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/pack_meetings/index.html Fun Awards http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/fun_awards/index.html Ethics http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/ethics/index.html Lightning Safety http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/lightning_safety/index.html Parent Involvement http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/parent_involvement/index.html Relief of Mafeking Campout http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/relief_of_mafeking/index.html Scout and Guide Museums http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/scouting_museums/index.html Scouter's Reference Room http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/reference_room/index.html Scouts in Fiction http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/scoutfiction/index.html Scouts on Tour http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/scouts_on_tour/index.html Suicide Awareness http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/suicide/index.html Training Quotations http://www.usscouts.org/profbvr/training_quotes/index.html Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/ From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Mon Jan 26 01:20:32 1998 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:20:31 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: Linda Heinz cc: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Re: District Committee Say-So In-Reply-To: <199801211434.IAA08246@mailhub.cns.ksu.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Linda, I took a look at BSA's "Standard Local Council Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws" and see no reference to minutes of meetings period. In each instance where descriptions of the conduct of meetings are provided; e.g., Council Executive Committee and District Committee, the articles provide that reports will be received, which usually signals that a meeting is being conducted along the lines in Robert's Rules of Order where minutes are kept, reports given, etc. In practice I suspect you'll find that most Districts do not keep minutes, because it is burdensome to do so and takes valuable time for a reading at a meeting when much needs to be done. Sounds to me like some decisions have been made and that the decision makers do not want to have to explain or discuss what they've done. In most cases this will lead to suspicion and bad feeling. Would be better for them to just spit out what's going on and deal with it. But most folks are adverse to confrontation and this may be how they are coping whether it is really a good way or not. May be the time for some fairly frank questions about whether they want you to continue and others or they've decided to clean house. Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/ From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Tue Jan 27 02:38:51 1998 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:38:49 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: BAILEYGJ Subject: Re: Craftstrip (Gimp) Supplies In-Reply-To: <12d26573.34cb39eb@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: Joy and Jeff, Welcome to the National Capital Area Council. And thanks for being willing to volunteer. Your help could not have come at a more crucial juncture. We are in the process of dividing up two oversized districts into seven to allow for better service for the long haul. I handle Commissioner Training for one of the two, where you live. I would like very much to talk to you about training and other possibilities. You asked about a source for gimp supplies. There are a couple of good possibilities. Tandy has a store in Springfield just off of Backlick Road (turn right after passing Roy Rogers headed North). It has been awhile since I was there, so I presume they're still there. Second is a little farther away. If you take the Beltway and head westbound and then get on I-66 West, you can get off at the first exit and take Nutley Street Northbound for about four blocks to the largest craft store in the area which also happens to be next to MicroCenter the largest computer store around here. The name of the store escapes me - late hour, but you can't miss it. The thing is the size of a K-mart. The name of the shopping center is Pan-Am Shopping Center. Mike M F. Bowman, | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Speaking in | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ the Scouting | U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org Spirit | USSSP FTP Site - ftp://ftp1.scouter.com/usscouts/ From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Fri Feb 27 05:08:55 1998 Status: O X-Status: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:08:54 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: mfbowman@scouter.com Subject: Scouts NewEngland Services (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Speaking in | mfbowman@scouter.com netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:08:01 -0500 From: Richard Axtman To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Scouts NewEngland Services Hello, I'd like to tell all New England Scouts and Scouters about a resource that you might like. It's called "Scouts NewEngland" (SNE) and it's a Web site and E-mail News and Discussion group that works similar to SCOUTS-L and others. You can learn about training sessions, special events, ask questions and find answers to anything related to Scouting within the New England here. We serve Scouts and Scouters of 6 states, Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Vermont. Currently we have 153 E-mail members from 19 different BSA Councils and all 6 New England states and we're constantly growing. Our Scouts NewEngland Web site has had 1731 visitors since 12-15-97. A special section has recently been added that shows many of the New England Council's 1997 National Jamboree Shoulder Patches if you'd care to see some of them. If you live in any of the 6 states we serve you can join our E-mail group by either signing our Web site Guest Book or by sending me the following registration information: Your Full Name: Your Registered BSA Scouting Position: Your Unit Type, Number, City and State: Your Council's Name, City and State: Your E-mail Address: I hope some of you pay or Web site a visit or join our E-mail group. Serving You and Scouting, Richard Axtman Founder and President of "Scouts NewEngland" Scouts NewEngland E-mail: mailto:scoutsnewengland@hotmail.com Scouts NewEngland Web site: http://members.tripod.com/~SNE From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Fri Feb 27 05:09:31 1998 Status: O X-Status: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:09:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: mfbowman@scouter.com Subject: Laguna Station (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Speaking in | mfbowman@scouter.com netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:12:05 -0600 From: Calvin H. Gray <405geezer@IGG-TX.NET> To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Laguna Station During the week of July 12-18, our troop will be attending the Laguna Station, a high adventure base on Texas' South Padre Island near Port Isabel, which offers programs similar to the Florida Sea Base. We have 44 people (29 Scouts & 15 adults) signed up but can add 6 more people (Scouts or adults) to our contingent. See http://members.aol.com/lagunabs/index.html for more information on the Laguna Station. Here are the adventures in which we have openings: Island Adventure (4 slots open) - Includes sailing, fishing, beach camping, snorkeling and surf kayaking. Participants must be at least age 13 by January 1, 1998, or have completed the 7th grade by the time of the trip. Cost is $435 plus transportation. SCUBA Certification (1 slot open) - Includes classroom and practical experience, including open water dives in the Gulf of Mexico, as you become a certified SCUBA diver. Participants must be at least age 14 by July 12 and have no prior history of asthma. Cost is $450 plus transportation. Gulf Fishing Adventure (1 slot open) - You will spend the week fishing in the surf and flats and finish up by heading offshore to fish for the "big ones" during a deep sea fishing trip. Participants must be at least age 13 by January 1, 1998, or have finished the 7th grade by the time of the trip. Cost is $475 plus transportation. To sign up, each participant will need to pay $225 now with another $100 due on April 6. The final fee payment will be due on May 18. Our troop contingent will be travelling by private vehicles with Scouts paying for the cost of fuel. Participants may also meet our group at the Laguna Station if this is more convenient. Air transportation is available to Harlingen, Texas, with the Laguna Station transporting participants from the airport to the base. If you are interested in joining our troop for this adventure, contact me by e-mail as soon as possible. YiS, -- Calvin H. Gray Scoutmaster, Troop 405 Georgetown, Texas mailto:405geezer@igg-tx.net mailto:scoutmaster@troop405.org http://www.troop405.org From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Fri Feb 27 05:19:06 1998 Status: O X-Status: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:19:05 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: mfbowman@scouter.com Subject: Venture Crews (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Speaking in | mfbowman@scouter.com netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:49:00 +0100 From: Jim Peterson To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: Venture Crews Hello Scouters, Thought I'd just post a quick note about the issue of Venture Crews in traditional troops and the Venturing Program being developed. I just got off the phone with Joe Glascock at BSA National/Boy Scouts Division. Great guy! He gave me more information than I've ever been able to get regarding the effect of Venturing on Venture Crews. Yep, he said they expect some confusion BUT hot off the press is a new flyer that he just faxed to me. The new flyer states that venture crew programs are still prominently featured in the troop program. As a matter of fact, Mr. Glascock said he fully expects a good deal of emphasis to be placed on this option in the traditional troop. He's on the committee rewriting the handbook and the SM handbook and the subject will be addressed in both. The new flyers are the type of publication that you'd get at roundtable. >From the flyer: THE ULTIMATE ADVENTURE Start a Venture Crew in Your Troop "A Venture Crew is an older-boy patrol within the troop. Having a crew will help keep older boys active in scouting by providing opportunities for high-adventure and sports activities that may be too physically challenging for younger boys in the troop. A Venture Crew should not detract from a troop's overall program. Instead, it should enhance the troop program. Boys in a Venture Crew may still assume leadership roles and advance, in the troop, and participate in trgular troop activities." I had an interesting talk with him about how the program operates in troops. I told him that in our unit, the crews were formed from more than one patrol for the express purpose of planning and executing a high-adventure trip instead of having a set of permanent Venture Crew patrols. He said this was a perfectly viable option and one that many units use. He said national doesn't want to be that nosy. Good info.! Great guy!....just thought I'd pass it on. BLUE SKIES!, Jim Peterson RT Comm, Pelathe Dist Heart of America Council ASM, T-55, Lawrence, Kansas Any day above ground is a good day! Mic-O-Say: "Shieldmaker" From mfbowman@CapAccess.org Fri Feb 27 05:19:57 1998 Status: O X-Status: Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 05:19:55 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael F. Bowman" To: mfbowman@scouter.com Subject: COLORADO REGIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPLORER CONFERENCE AND MOCK DISASTER WEB SITES NOW UP (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Speaking in | mfbowman@scouter.com netcommish@aol.com the Scouting | The NetCommish http://members.aol.com/netcommish Spirit from | Professor Beaver Online - http://usscouts.org/profbvr/ Alexandria, VA| U.S. Scouting Service Project - http://usscouts.org ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:54:48 -0500 From: Bob Amick To: Multiple recipients of list SCOUTS-L Subject: COLORADO REGIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT EXPLORER CONFERENCE AND MOCK DISASTER WEB SITES NOW UP The Colorado Regional Law Enforcement Explorer Conference web site is now operational on the LEEPAAC (law enforcement explorer post advisor's association of Colorado) web-site under the "event" button: http://bcn.boulder.co.us/community/explorer/leepaac The Explorer Mock Disaster Web site is also operational at http://bcn.boulder.co.us/community/explorer/mockdisaster Special thanks to Law Enforcement Explorer Yoshi Goto for the good work in putting these sites on line. Bob Amick, Exploring Training Chair, Longs Peak Council Exploring Committee