From cmarsey@gw.scouter.com Wed Feb 11 09:09:07 1998 Return-Path: cmarsey@gw.scouter.com Received: from gw.scouter.com (gw.SCOUTER.com [208.18.92.10]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id JAA03650 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:09:07 -0500 Received: (from cmarsey@localhost) by gw.scouter.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id IAA27218; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:02:26 -0600 (CST) From: Christopher Marsey Message-Id: <199802111402.IAA27218@gw.scouter.com> Subject: USSSP Server/Email To: tci@gw.scouter.com, cmarsey@gw.scouter.com, hendra@macscouter.com, mfbowman@capaccess.org Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:02:25 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: Good Morning Guys, In light of the SM (scouter magazine) policy to consider it appropriate for the company to 'look into and manipulate' scouter.com email accounts I've personally decided to no longer have a @scouter.com email address. As far as how this relates to the USSSP, I think that we should all have @usscouts.org email addresses (whether they re-direct to personal accounts or are POP3 accounts). Since it will be the policy of SM to consider all email accounts 'open' to the company, this puts the USSSP into an awkward position. The Unix server that currently hosts the USSSP is my personal property (except for one of the hard drives which SM owns). I would propose that if we entertain a contract with SM for hosting services that it instead be for 'bandwidth services' and operate the project on our own server at SM facilities. This way, SM will not have access to any of our accounts. I can donate use of the system to the USSSP. In this case, I will ask terry to provide another unix system for SM use and remove SM services from the box at the earliest possible convenience to both. SM only uses the box as a gateway and for list processor services right now. It also hosts the seascout.org domain and a few other web sites SM has provided people space for. Another option, which I really prefer at this time, would be to host the www.usscouts.org site at the internet provider I have secured in Blue Springs, MO near where I live. I have a working relationship now with the ISP and am doing some part time work for them. This would alleviate the issue of SM being able to have access to our email and also would keep the site up if things between myself and SM deteriorate in the immediate future. We would leave the clipart.usscouts.org on Terry's server for the time being as the cost of hosting that somewhere is more expensive. I want everyone to understand that the T1 access that SM has to the internet is contingent upon me providing 'on call' tech support, etc. to a company across the street from SM. The administrator there has asked me to let him know if I ever leave SM as that is the reason they are allowing SM to use the T1. Because of both my personal relationship with the administrater over there and because of his hint that if I no longer worked for SM they might have some work for me, I feel compelled to let them know. I don't know what will transpire from there. They may cut off SM immediately, or they may try to negotiatee SM to pay for the access. I just don't know and will not know till I inform them of my situation. disagree with the SM email policy and as the result of many strained issues with our relationship I intend to resign today. I am going to leave the door open to working for SM on a contract basis part time. In doing so I will talking to the T1 provider about the situation also. I really need to know how we plan to handle the usscouts.org side of things so I can take the appropriate action. I was talking to dave yesterday I believe about the issues I see in managing t the web side of things. There are some basic positions or duties that need to be assigned (including the related authority to act) in various areas. One is Configuration Manager, one is Webmaster. I would like to propose and accept the responsibility of Configuration Manager, which duties would include managing and configuring the 'hosting' side of things. I would be responsible for backups and determining police for and means for members to upload pages, etc to the site. I would make sure that no matter where we host any part of the site that nothing gets 'lost'. Basically the technical guy who also implements procedures for managing the data stores. What do you guys think? I would really like to get some feedback early today so that I can write an email to terry about resigning. Chris. Chris cmarsey@usscouts.org From dave@scouter.com Wed Feb 11 18:07:58 1998 Return-Path: dave@scouter.com Received: from gw.scouter.com (gw.SCOUTER.com [208.18.92.10]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id SAA13563 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:07:58 -0500 Received: from orion (54.scouter.com [172.16.0.54]) by gw.scouter.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA02165; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:00:03 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980211170705.00ab2c50@gw.scouter.com> X-Sender: tci@gw.scouter.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:07:10 -0600 To: Christopher Marsey From: Dave Tracewell Subject: Re: USSSP Server/Email Cc: cmarsey@gw.scouter.com, hendra@macscouter.com, mfbowman@capaccess.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: RO X-Status: At 08:02 AM 2/11/98 -0600, Christopher Marsey wrote: >Good Morning Guys, > >In light of the SM (scouter magazine) policy to consider it appropriate >for the company to 'look into and manipulate' scouter.com email accounts >I've personally decided to no longer have a @scouter.com email address. > >As far as how this relates to the USSSP, I think that we should all have >@usscouts.org email addresses (whether they re-direct to personal accounts >or are POP3 accounts). Since it will be the policy of SM to consider all email >accounts 'open' to the company, this puts the USSSP into an awkward position. > This seems reasonable to me.. I would think we would want that in any case as this organization grows. Just so everyone knows, now that Chris has brought it up, I do not feel Terry is reading "my mail", even though he can. I do, however, think it is prudent to establish usscouts.org e-mail accounts. >The Unix server that currently hosts the USSSP is my personal property (except >for one of the hard drives which SM owns). I would propose that if we >entertain a contract with SM for hosting services that it instead be for >'bandwidth services' and operate the project on our own server at SM facilities. >This way, SM will not have access to any of our accounts. I can donate use of >the system to the USSSP. This is, in my estimation, an over reaction to a problem I really believe doesn't exist. I've spoken with Chris about this, and I know he disagrees, but I have to believe we need a certain amount of trust with SCOUTER Magazine. Chris & Terry certainly have strained relations which I know has precipitated these actions by Chris, but I don't believe Terry, or SCOUTER Magazine is "the enemy", why do we need to move or change things around so quickly. I would advise taking things a whole lot slower and evaluating our positions. I respect what Chris has to say, I just do not believe we HAVE to do it right now. > >In this case, I will ask terry to provide another unix system for SM use and >remove SM services from the box at the earliest possible convenience to both. >SM only uses the box as a gateway and for list processor services right now. >It also hosts the seascout.org domain and a few other web sites SM has >provided people space for. Again, what is the rush??? I do not understand this. > >Another option, which I really prefer at this time, would be to host the >www.usscouts.org site at the internet provider I have secured in Blue Springs, >MO near where I live. I have a working relationship now with the ISP and am >doing some part time work for them. This would alleviate the issue of SM being >able to have access to our email and also would keep the site up if things >between myself and SM deteriorate in the immediate future. We would leave >the clipart.usscouts.org on Terry's server for the time being as the cost of >hosting that somewhere is more expensive. > This is certainly an option we can discuss and possibly even act on, but I've already stated my views on the e-mail issue. >I want everyone to understand that the T1 access that SM has to the internet is >contingent upon me providing 'on call' tech support, etc. to a company across >the street from SM. The administrator there has asked me to let him know if I >ever leave SM as that is the reason they are allowing SM to use the T1. Because >of both my personal relationship with the administrater over there and because >of his hint that if I no longer worked for SM they might have some work for me, >I feel compelled to let them know. I don't know what will transpire from >there. They may cut off SM immediately, or they may try to negotiatee SM to >pay for the access. I just don't know and will not know till I inform them >of my situation. While what Chris has told us above is true, it certainly does not mean that we will have access terminated immediately (something I am personally concerned with) as Terry has a 90 day termination claus in the contract. Worst case senerio is that Terry will need to negotiate a per month leasing/rental agreement with them which is something he is already considering knowing the tentative situation with Chris. Again, there is no need to make hasty decisions. > > disagree with the SM email policy and as the result of many strained issues >with our relationship I intend to resign today. I am going to leave the >door open to working for SM on a contract basis part time. In doing so I will >talking to the T1 provider about the situation also. I really need to know >how we plan to handle the usscouts.org side of things so I can take the >appropriate action. I am sorry to see Chris resign, but considering the situation, feel it is probably the best for both. I am happy to see that Chris is still willing to work with him. > >I was talking to dave yesterday I believe about the issues I see in managing t >the web side of things. There are some basic positions or duties that need >to be assigned (including the related authority to act) in various areas. >One is Configuration Manager, one is Webmaster. I would like to propose and >accept the responsibility of Configuration Manager, which duties would >include managing and configuring the 'hosting' side of things. I would be >responsible for backups and determining police for and means for members to >upload pages, etc to the site. I would make sure that no matter where we host >any part of the site that nothing gets 'lost'. Basically the technical guy >who also implements procedures for managing the data stores. I believe this is a good recommendation, would that include "Webmaster" as well?, or would Mike take on that responsibility. Can we discuss this on Sunday evening? > >What do you guys think? I would really like to get some feedback early today so >that I can write an email to terry about resigning. > Chris, I truly understand your feelings, especially after last night, but as I have repeatedly said, and I still believe, making long term decisions now after such an emotional 3-4 days is ill advised. I really think we need to take this one step at a time. We need to make the best decisions for the USSSP when calmer heads prevail. Dave Tracewell The Prez' From cmarsey@gw.scouter.com Wed Feb 11 21:34:09 1998 Return-Path: cmarsey@gw.scouter.com Received: from gw.scouter.com (gw.SCOUTER.com [208.18.92.10]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id VAA27257 for ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:34:09 -0500 Received: (from cmarsey@localhost) by gw.scouter.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA04178; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:26:18 -0600 (CST) From: Christopher Marsey Message-Id: <199802120226.UAA04178@gw.scouter.com> Subject: Re: USSSP Server/Email In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980211170705.00ab2c50@gw.scouter.com> from Dave Tracewell at "Feb 11, 98 05:07:10 pm" To: dave@scouter.com (Dave Tracewell) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:26:18 -0600 (CST) Cc: hendra@macscouter.com, cmarsey@usscouts.org, mfbowman@capaccess.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: > >As far as how this relates to the USSSP, I think that we should all have > >@usscouts.org email addresses (whether they re-direct to personal accounts > >or are POP3 accounts). Since it will be the policy of SM to consider all > email > >accounts 'open' to the company, this puts the USSSP into an awkward position. > This seems reasonable to me.. I would think we would want that in any case > as this organization grows. Just so everyone knows, now that Chris has > brought it up, I do not feel Terry is reading "my mail", even though he > can. I do, however, think it is prudent to establish usscouts.org e-mail > accounts. The issue at hand in my mind Dave is that if Terry has access to the unix box he would have access to email accounts on that system. He does want acces to it and should have to the services he uses once the 'system' ownership becomes his. > >In this case, I will ask terry to provide another unix system for SM use and > >remove SM services from the box at the earliest possible convenience to both. > >SM only uses the box as a gateway and for list processor services right now. > >It also hosts the seascout.org domain and a few other web sites SM has > >provided people space for. > Again, what is the rush??? I do not understand this. The issue or rush on this one to me is that I want to officially resign so that we can negotiate on a possible continued/future relationship. i need to either sell that box to Terry (in which case he will then have full access to it's contents.. ie mail accounts) or not sell it and have him get his own box to put Sm stuff on so he can have access to it. > While what Chris has told us above is true, it certainly does not mean that > we will have access terminated immediately (something I am personally > concerned with) as Terry has a 90 day termination claus in the contract. > Worst case senerio is that Terry will need to negotiate a per month > leasing/rental agreement with them which is something he is already > considering knowing the tentative situation with Chris. Again, there is no > need to make hasty decisions. Part of that contract is to have my services supplied. I would guess that if my services were not available, they would not have to honor a 90 day termination clause. Once I resign, I do feel compelled to inform Tony next door of the situation as he has asked personally (on a personal basis) for me to keep him informed. There is also the issue that they may provide me with part time work at a very good rate. > >I was talking to dave yesterday I believe about the issues I see in > managing t > >the web side of things. There are some basic positions or duties that need > >to be assigned (including the related authority to act) in various areas. > >One is Configuration Manager, one is Webmaster. I would like to propose and > >accept the responsibility of Configuration Manager, which duties would > >include managing and configuring the 'hosting' side of things. I would be > >responsible for backups and determining policy for and means for members to > >upload pages, etc to the site. I would make sure that no matter where we > host > >any part of the site that nothing gets 'lost'. Basically the technical guy > >who also implements procedures for managing the data stores. > > I believe this is a good recommendation, would that include "Webmaster" as > well?, or would Mike take on that responsibility. Can we discuss this on > Sunday evening? I was not volunteering for the webmaster position, unless no one else does. As long as Gary has an opportunity to discuss his feelings on the issue, I'm agreeable to putting it onto the Sunday Agenda. > Chris, I truly understand your feelings, especially after last night, but > as I have repeatedly said, and I still believe, making long term decisions > now after such an emotional 3-4 days is ill advised. I really think we need > to take this one step at a time. We need to make the best decisions for the > USSSP when calmer heads prevail. Thanks dave, I really do appreciate your perspective, but I have decided act on my relationship with SM as soon as possible pending a couple USSSP decisions. That relationship I don't consider too open to discussion to the USSSP. At this point the only reason I bring both up is for the possible impact my personal business decisions may have on the USSSP. I don't want to see it go offline and I believe that is a fairly reasonable possibility. i will not postpone my personal business decisions solely for the benefit of the USSSP. I will, however, take into account how I proceed so that it has the least possible impact on the USSSP. Chris. From cmarsey@gw.scouter.com Fri Feb 13 10:11:51 1998 Return-Path: cmarsey@gw.scouter.com Received: from server1.capaccess.org (server1.CapAccess.org [207.91.115.5]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id KAA00211 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:11:51 -0500 Received: from gw.scouter.com (gw.SCOUTER.com [208.18.92.10]) by server1.capaccess.org (AIX4.2/UCB 8.7/8.7) with ESMTP id KAA43692 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:04:06 -0500 (EST) Received: (from cmarsey@localhost) by gw.scouter.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id JAA21873; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:03:28 -0600 (CST) From: Christopher Marsey Message-Id: <199802131503.JAA21873@gw.scouter.com> Subject: Re: USSSP Server/Email In-Reply-To: from "Michael F. Bowman" at "Feb 13, 98 01:16:37 am" To: mfbowman@CapAccess.org (Michael F. Bowman) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:03:27 -0600 (CST) Cc: hendra@macscouter.com, twell@ccmall.com, mfbowman@CapAccess.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: > briefly on Sunday. I do not plan to be part of Terry's teleconference. I > would urge Terry to reduce what he plans to say into a written > communication. This would avert the problem of several folks having > differing recollections of what was said later on. I agree that every agreement should be required to be in writing and that even other communication will benefit from that as well. Not that anyone's ever had different recollections of what was said later on! Is the 'Terry's Teleconference' thing something I'm not invited to as I don't know what it is? What is it? Chris. From cmarsey@gw.scouter.com Fri Feb 13 11:09:17 1998 Return-Path: cmarsey@gw.scouter.com Received: from gw.scouter.com ([208.18.92.10]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id LAA09896 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:09:17 -0500 Received: (from cmarsey@localhost) by gw.scouter.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id KAA22490; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:01:37 -0600 (CST) From: Christopher Marsey Message-Id: <199802131601.KAA22490@gw.scouter.com> Subject: Scouter.com copyright notice To: twell@ccmall.com, hendra@macscouter.com, mfbowman@capaccess.org Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:01:37 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: I just noticed that the copyright page (linked to in most footers on the scouter.com sites) claims the usssp as a part of itself. Chris. From cmarsey@gw.scouter.com Fri Feb 13 16:23:11 1998 Return-Path: cmarsey@gw.scouter.com Received: from gw.scouter.com ([208.18.92.10]) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) with ESMTP id QAA26882 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:23:11 -0500 Received: (from cmarsey@localhost) by gw.scouter.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id PAA26086; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:15:28 -0600 (CST) From: Christopher Marsey Message-Id: <199802132115.PAA26086@gw.scouter.com> Subject: Re: CD sales, payments, & orders In-Reply-To: <01BD3879.11505EC0@ORION> from Dave Tracewell at "Feb 13, 98 12:15:25 pm" To: dave@scouter.com (Dave Tracewell) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:15:28 -0600 (CST) Cc: hendra@macscouter.com, mfbowman@capaccess.org, twell@ccmall.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL31H (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: I had lunch with Dave today and went over my issues on this with him. Here's a quick synopsis for the others on the board. > I'm under the impression that we have agreed to take only $ .30 cents each > and use the rest for buying the next 1000 CD's. At the rate SCOUTER > Magazine is selling them (about 10 a day now), we will need to make an > order sometime in the next week to 10 days. There is a flyer that went out > to 15,000 Scouters in the magazine that will "hit" next week. We will need > to be prepared. In addition to the 51.50 I was going to use as the initial deposit for our checking account (now we have that $6xx check too!), I have about another $125 or so to go with that. That would put me at the .75 cent level. Two things I see as a need. 1. Get say $2k in the bank for the next 1k CD run + incidentals 2. Get everyone on an even and agreeable royalty level. For #1, I think we should all agree (to a degree as if we never had agreements for any particular amount) on what we should have gotten for the CD. Or I guess the better wat`y to put it is how much we should each get for this first 1k CDs. For the (approx) next 500, we stand to make about $2500. If we each take $1 per CD up to where we are now, that puts $489 in each of our pockets. If we each take $0.25 for the remainder, that puts $2k in the usssp coffers. We can then discuss in a few weeks where to go from there. This would mean (after opening an account with $667.75 + $51.50 + ~$125.00 = $884.25) that each of us would be due $479.00. That leaves: Tem Mbr. Paid so far Bal Owed to them Chris 359.25 119.75 Gary 500.75 -21.75 Mike 41.25 437.75 Dave 227.25 251.75 Letting gary keep an over credit for now, that's 809.25 in disbursements. Dave will probably be getting another $500 or so today (it's friday and 100 or so have been sold this week I hear) so we will have a decent balance in the checking account we open up on Monday (hopefully if we get the Federal stuff back) This will (I would hope) seem fair to all and give everyone some cash in the pocket now (especially Mike whose pocket seems to be empty according to the above chart!). I don't think anyone needs to say 'Ill take mine out later' as there will be plenty out of the remaining to get our 'start up fund' going. We should then have enough to make new CDs over the next couple weeks (or less maybe - cross your fingers here) For #2, well, that kind of covered that except to say we would figure out royalties for the second 1k over the next few weeks. That's my proposal on this front. > A few Issues to consider: > 1 Do we just have them make the same CD, or do we include the new clipart > we have? > 2. Will that then be ver. 1.1? > 3. Do we use the same cover? > 4. Do we have them take the 1-800-SCOUTER ad off the back? > 5. Do we have them made at the same place or do we look for a better deal? My opinion on the first 5 items is to take the quickest rout for this next 1k. I would like to see the scouter ad off the back, but that entails new film, and the associated cost, whereas we could just call them up and say let another 1k rip. > 6. If we do not have the full $ 1500.00 to print these, are we all > able/willing to come up with the difference > to cover the costs? I don't think we need to 'borrow' from anyone to do this. We will have the cash we need as the last of the first 1k sell. Worst case is Terry will not be able to 'ship' then current orders for a week or two. I don't see this kind of a delay as justification to 'borrow' or make any kind of deal. > 7. After the initial 1000 CD's are sold, are there any "guidelines" you > would like to see in those > negotiations? That is the primary reason for the call/meeting on > Sunday. It would be helpful to know > how we feel before we start. (for security reasons, respond to the > twell@ccmall.com address) The actual primary reason is to look at a proposed contract Dave and Mike would hopefully have ready (according to the minutes), hash it out and approve something or at least minimum levels for Dave to 'seal' an agreement on. My opinions: 1. I'm against exclusivity (even in a limited time frame). We should have at a minimum the ability with a contract to sell them at places where board members happen to with a group of scouters and have the project keep all the take. 2. I think an exclusivity agreement with the issue in #1 excepted in it would be fair exchange for 'hosting' the clipart site. I would value the max cost for hosting the clipart site somewhere would be $400. That's a max. It would probably be half that or less if we twist the right arms at the right places of the right people. We would also send shoppers to SM from our CD pages. We could list SM as a sponsor on a sponsors page. 3. I don't think we need to give anything else away with the barn. > 8. I would like to get this "tied down" ASAP so that we can move on to > other issues that are coming up. > > Dave Tracewell > > > That's my comments. Chris.